View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #21
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The "middle" means to me welfare state. How did you vote?
    No, somewhere in the middle means exactly what it says. I didn't vote, because there's not an option for somewhere in the middle.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #22
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    What works for all? Who decides that? What if what "works" for all in practice means taking from some to give to others for votes?

    Also, I dont see your view reflected in the poll, why is this?
    I voted, and I said which one I chose. Check again, if you've got access to see who voted how.

    And you're going with the old "taking from some and giving to others" argument. The problem is, the ONLY way to avoid that is to have zero, precisely zero, taxes at all...and you can't have a functional nation without taxes in one form or another. Can't be done. So since we WILL have a system where there will be taxation (taking from some and giving to others), why not go with that system that works best for the most people? Like, you know, the system that has led to the highest standards of living in human history?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  3. #23
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Can you provide some examples of minarchism resulting in a successful nation that last for many generations? Or even ONE example?
    I dont know that minarchism has been employed at the level of a nation, but I have seen the welfare state end in disaster (USSR is a prime example). Does this mean you cannot provide examples of minarchism ending in disaster?

  4. #24
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    WTF, it's been 20 minutes and no votes for a Welfare state yet. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
    Never fear. Glen Predictable is here now.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    No, somewhere in the middle means exactly what it says. I didn't vote, because there's not an option for somewhere in the middle.
    As I see it, you are for the welfare state, apparently to an extent you find acceptable. Does that observation work for you?

  6. #26
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If men were angels, that is if all people were good hearted and good intentioned and worked to put their sweat where their mouth was, either would do.


    The problem with a night-watchman state it is doesn't prevent the exploitation of the poor, as seen during the Industrial revolution and indeed until modern governments instituted workplace safety rules and so on.

    The problem with the welfare state is so much money flows through its hands that it grows corrupt, and the temptation to ride the wagon is strong for some.

    Somewhere in the middle would be better.
    I'm with you, but alas, according to US Conservative, that means we both vote welfare state.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  7. #27
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I voted, and I said which one I chose. Check again, if you've got access to see who voted how.

    And you're going with the old "taking from some and giving to others" argument. The problem is, the ONLY way to avoid that is to have zero, precisely zero, taxes at all...and you can't have a functional nation without taxes in one form or another. Can't be done. So since we WILL have a system where there will be taxation (taking from some and giving to others), why not go with that system that works best for the most people? Like, you know, the system that has led to the highest standards of living in human history?
    I think taxation is a reasonable imposition on the people, but only for the minimal functions of govt (military, emergency services, etc). However, I draw the line at where that becomes a means to transfer wealth between citizens. Do you see the distinction I make?

  8. #28
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Interesting can you give some examples of minarchism ending in disaster?
    Perhaps disaster was the wrong word, but name a system of monarchism that survived the ages till today. But I will say systems of government and economy that lean too far to planned do end up in disaster. Seems to me the better option is a minimal Republic style representative government over a mixed model economic system that leans market.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'm with you, but alas, according to US Conservative, that means we both vote welfare state.
    To an extent you do. Is that not factually correct? The issue of degree could certainly be discussed, but thats a separate issue.

  10. #30
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I voted, and I said which one I chose. Check again, if you've got access to see who voted how.

    And you're going with the old "taking from some and giving to others" argument. The problem is, the ONLY way to avoid that is to have zero, precisely zero, taxes at all...and you can't have a functional nation without taxes in one form or another. Can't be done. So since we WILL have a system where there will be taxation (taking from some and giving to others), why not go with that system that works best for the most people? Like, you know, the system that has led to the highest standards of living in human history?
    Good grief. The government didn't make this country great, people having the freedom to prosper (and yes, profit) did. We really do speak a whole other language sometimes.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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