View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #221
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    It does not change who uses the programs more, does it? Lets not pretend its the dems who are the party of fiscal responsibility.
    The fact that you won't answer those three questions tell me all I need to know.
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So no more sponging off others for your personal benefit. The horror!
    And then you and all your like minded individuals can find out why life in third-world nations is the way it is.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And then you and all your like minded individuals can find out why life in third-world nations is the way it is.
    Yeah, people using money out of their own pocket to help others is awful.

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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    i would point out that the nightwatchman interpretation, would refer to the State [federal government] based on what the founders created.

    since the 50 state themselves have more powers then the federal government via the Constitution, they are not confined to a nightwatchman classification.

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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    It does not change who uses the programs more, does it? Lets not pretend its the dems who are the party of fiscal responsibility.
    So you won't answer those 3 simple questions will you? I didn't think you'd be honest enough to anyways. Here's the thing: People using those programs does not change who manages them. States manage those programs. States define their budgets and the federal government funds them. So why is it that red states don't slash their budgets to reflect their conservative fiscal policies? Well, it's mostly because they're not interested in it. They like the perks of federal funding. Why, hell another measure of just how little interest conservatives have in fiscal frugalism is pork spending:

    RealClearPolitics - Senators Who Snagged the Most Pork in This Year's Spending - Mitch McConnell

    Mitch McConnell
    State: Kentucky
    Party: Republican
    Amount in Solo Earmarks: $51,186,000
    Sample Earmarks:$1.6 million for a forage animal production research laboratory in Lexington,KY
    $1.088 million for an animal waste management research lab in Bowling Green
    James Inhofe
    State: Oklahoma
    Party: Republican
    Amount in Solo Earmarks: $53,133,500
    Sample Earmarks:$500,000 Ada Public Works Authority, Wastewater Lift Station
    $274,000 Animal Waste Management, OK
    Lisa Murkowski
    State: Alaska
    Party: Republican
    Amount in Solo Earmarks: $74,000,750
    Sample Earmarks:$19,642,000 Denali Commission to support health projects and economic development activities for the arctic region under the Denali Commission Act of 1998
    $20,000,000 Olympic Nat'l Park (Elwha)
    Thad Cochran
    State: Mississippi
    Party: Republican
    Amount in Solo Earmarks: $75,908,475
    Sample Earmarks:$1,900,000 Hattiesburg 4th Street Improvements, MS
    $26,000,000 Delta Health Alliance, Inc. to improve the delivery of public health services in the Mississippi Delta region under title III of the Public Health Service Act
    Kit Bond
    State: Missouri
    Party: Republican
    Amount in Solo Earmarks: $85,691,491
    Sample Earmarks:$950,000 World Trade Center of St. Louis, MO
    $3,500,000 St. Louis Flood Protection, MO
    Richard Shelby
    State: Alabama
    Party: Republican
    Amount in Solo Earmarks: $114,484,250
    Sample Earmarks:$800,000 Oyster rehabilitation, AL
    $3,800,000 City of Tuscaloosa Downtown Revitalization Project -University Blvd and Greensboro Avenue, AL
    Of the top 10 Senators responsible for bringing the most pork back to their state, 6 were Republican and 1 of them the new Senate Majority leader who said:



    It's clear what the Republican Party and its leaders prefer. They prefer the welfare state. Proof:

    - In the overwhelming majority of cases their budgets aren't cut to reflect conservative fiscal policies.
    - 6 of the top 10 pork lovers in Washington are Republicans (one of them will be the new Senate Majority Leader)
    - You can't even blame people who use these programs (like your blogspot link tried to do) as they have no control over which program the state makes available.

    Hell, I can even go further. The organization Citizens Against Government Waste (a conservative think tank) has a monthly report on who loves that federal pork most. Guess who won last month?:

    http://cagw.org/media/press-releases...r-porker-month

    Today, Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) named Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) its November Porker of the Month for his second unsuccessful attempt to convince his fellow Republican lawmakers that it would be a good idea to restore earmarks
    We done yet? Or you want another thrashing on whether Republicans prefer the welfare state or the night watchman state?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-28-14 at 03:57 PM.
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So you won't answer those 3 simple questions will you? I didn't think you'd be honest enough to anyways. Here's the thing: People using those programs does not change who manages them. States manage those programs. States define their budgets and the federal government funds them. So why is it that red states don't slash their budgets to reflect their conservative fiscal policies? Well, it's mostly because they're not interested in it. They like the perks of federal funding. Why, hell another measure of just how little interest conservatives have in fiscal frugalism is pork spending:

    RealClearPolitics - Senators Who Snagged the Most Pork in This Year's Spending - Mitch McConnell













    Of the top 10 Senators responsible for bringing the most pork back to their state, 6 were Republican and 1 of them the new Senate Majority leader who said:



    It's clear what the Republican Party and its leaders prefer. They prefer the welfare state. Proof:

    - In the overwhelming majority of cases their budgets aren't cut to reflect conservative fiscal policies.
    - 6 of the top 10 pork lovers in Washington are Republicans (one of them will be the new Senate Majority Leader)
    - You can't even blame people who use these programs (like your blogspot link tried to do) as they have no control over which program the state makes available.

    Hell, I can even go further. The organization Citizens Against Government Waste (a conservative think tank) has a monthly report on who loves that federal pork most. Guess who won last month?:

    CAGW Names Rep. Mike Rogers November Porker of the Month | Citizens Against Government Waste



    We done yet? Or you want another thrashing on whether Republicans prefer the welfare state or the night watchman state?
    Politicians love pork, I never said otherwise.
    When did we move the goalposts to who manages them? Ive never received govt funds, and I live in CA. Does that make me a welfare state advocate? It of course does not.

  7. #227
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Politicians love pork, I never said otherwise.
    And so do their states. As I mentioned earlier: Louisiana, a conservative state ranks pretty high not because people take advantage of these programs. It ranks high because politicians and Republican states budget these programs and take in more than they actually give. Its budget reflects that, not the number of people who use it. Do you get the point now? I'll make it even simpler. Republican politicians and Republican voters in Republican states have a choice to cut the budgets of their federally funded state programs and yet, they don't. Why?

    When did we move the goalposts to who manages them? Ive never received govt funds, and I live in CA. Does that make me a welfare state advocate? It of course does not.
    Nobody moved the goalposts anywhere. I asked you to answer three simple questions which made your blogspot link laughably dishonest ( if not entirely fiction, I take blogspot "polls" with a grain of salt). Politicians are responsible for what their states take in taxes. Republican politicians and the Republican masses, love their welfare states otherwise they wouldn't keep reelecting pork loving, welfare funding politicians. So with that said, this nonsense that there is such a thing as a 'night watchman state' is just laughable. What's even more laughable is that there is a sizeable percentage of conservatives who hate it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And so do their states. As I mentioned earlier: Louisiana, a conservative state ranks pretty high not because people take advantage of these programs. It ranks high because politicians and Republican states budget these programs and take in more than they actually give. Its budget reflects that, not the number of people who use it. Do you get the point now? I'll make it even simpler. Republican politicians and Republican voters in Republican states have a choice to cut the budgets of their federally funded state programs and yet, they don't. Why?



    Nobody moved the goalposts anywhere. I asked you to answer three simple questions which made your blogspot link laughably dishonest ( if not entirely fiction, I take blogspot "polls" with a grain of salt). Politicians are responsible for what their states take in taxes. Republican politicians and the Republican masses, love their welfare states otherwise they wouldn't keep reelecting pork loving, welfare funding politicians. So with that said, this nonsense that there is such a thing as a 'night watchman state' is just laughable. What's even more laughable is that there is a sizeable percentage of conservatives who hate it.
    The blogspot "poll" was not his own, it was from official sources. Im sure you can figure that out.

  9. #229
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The blogspot "poll" was not his own, it was from official sources. Im sure you can figure that out.
    Lmao, it wasn't from official sources. He practically pulled a Grim17 and decided to make up his own numbers based on his interpretations of how data is quantified. Not only is that fishy, it's laughable that you'd try to pass it off as an official source. However, that is besides the point. The point, which you have failed to address because it doesn't fit your argument is that politicians and states run social programs in their states.

    Let's take an example: Who runs medicaid in Louisiana? The Department of Health & Hospitals. Who funds Medicaid in Louisiana? Well, for the most part, the federal government. Who crafts the budget for Medicaid in Louisiana? The state of Louisiana. So with that said, your red herring about who actually uses these programs is just that, a red herring. Conservatives and Republicans don't actually want these 'night watchman' governments. They want to pretend they do, but aren't actually willing to give up federal funding for these programs. Can you tell us why?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao, it wasn't from official sources. He practically pulled a Grim17 and decided to make up his own numbers based on his interpretations of how data is quantified. Not only is that fishy, it's laughable that you'd try to pass it off as an official source. However, that is besides the point. The point, which you have failed to address because it doesn't fit your argument is that politicians and states run social programs in their states.

    Let's take an example: Who runs medicaid in Louisiana? The Department of Health & Hospitals. Who funds Medicaid in Louisiana? Well, for the most part, the federal government. Who crafts the budget for Medicaid in Louisiana? The state of Louisiana. So with that said, your red herring about who actually uses these programs is just that, a red herring. Conservatives and Republicans don't actually want these 'night watchman' governments. They want to pretend they do, but aren't actually willing to give up federal funding for these programs. Can you tell us why?
    Look, YOU are the one who brought up red states using welfare, I have demonstrated who is using them (far out of proportion) so stop the dancing and cries about red herring.

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