View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #181
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You cited it as evidence of your point, now you admit it is not. The fact the better the economic state, the more can be allocated to the poor. They aren't doing well BECAUSE they help the poor as you suggest.

    And again, while I regularly provide charity for the poor (money and healthcare, here and in Mexico) I do NOT see it as the govts role to forcibly redistribute for votes to do as much.
    *sigh*.

    So let's let you have it your way. No more social safety net:

    No more health care for children whose parent's can't afford health care for them.
    No more food stamps for those who can't afford enough food to feed their families.
    No more vocational rehab for the disabled so they can find work.
    No more unemployment insurance to provide a cushion when somebody gets laid off.
    No more free meals for poor kids at school.
    No more access to health care for the poor - heck, no more automatic access to care in the emergency room, either.
    No more rent assistance - if a family can't afford the rent, they're on the street and good riddance!
    No more taxpayer-funded job search assistance - if you can't find a job, tough luck.
    No more taxpayer-funded job training - if you can't afford to pay for the training, tough luck.
    No more taxpayer-funded assistance for the disabled - if they can't afford a wheelchair, they can crawl!
    No more taxpayer-funded access to nursing homes - if they can't afford the nursing home, out on the street they go!
    No more taxpayer-funded vaccinations - if you catch measles, tough luck - just die quickly so you don't spread it to others.

    Shall I go on?

    There was a commercial for Quaker State (or was it Pennzoil) back in the 1970's. In the commercial, the mechanic points out what happens when someone doesn't get their oil changed regularly, and shows the cost of oil changes as compared to what happens without those oil changes. The famous quote from that commercial was, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later."

    And so it goes with the social safety net - you can pay for it now...or you can pay for what happens because it's not there. But either way, you will pay.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  2. #182
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    There is no burden on me to prove anything, especially not present a counter proposal to your flawed one. You have just proposed a system that would enable every addict in society to abuse, will promote violence when addled people get bored playing their video games in their free house with free food and free electricity, and among those "everyone", mental illness will be ramped, and even if all that were not the case, potatoes you will be giving away for free do not plant, grow, and harvest themselves.
    First of all, your straw-mans are unjustified and unappreciated:
    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    You have just proposed a system that would enable every addict in society to abuse, will promote violence when addled people get bored playing their video games in their free house with free food and free electricity, and among those "everyone", mental illness will be ramped[/I]"
    1. Where did I suggest anyone would receive free electricity?

    2. Where will people get the money to become an addict if they don't have a source of income?

    3. Why should mental illness have to become rampant if there are services to take care of that?

    4. Where will people get the money to buy new games to play without a source of income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    "potatoes you will be giving away for free do not plant, grow, and harvest themselves"
    I never made such a claim. How does anything I suggested in my post automatically imply that nobody will "Plant, grow and harvest things? As I said, Burden of proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    "There is no burden on me to prove anything, especially not present a counter proposal to your flawed one."
    Isn't calling it flawed a claim in itself? I never suggested you had to provide a 'counter-proposal', in fact that would be a red-herring. You simply have to show that what you're claiming as a positive, particularly in this case (to paraphrase) that my proposal is flawed, is true, especially since you asserted it. One who makes a claim, should have justifications for that claim.

  3. #183
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think it could be said that the welfare state seeks to impose equality of outcomes, despite the fact that life is inherently unequal, and that inequality of effort also is assured.
    What example[s] do we have to compare a welfare state to a night-watchman state? We have had two versions of the welfare state, but when did we have in our history a night-watchman style of governance...and more importantly a N-W form of government in which you claim all had access to government?


  4. #184
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    If you want the govt to put them to work, yes it does. In reality the govt does not really create jobs (excepting itself-power always takes care of itself) but it does make it harder for citizens to get jobs. From minimum wage to illegal immigration.
    You are incorrect. The government creates plenty of jobs. Does the road need to be cleaned up in an area with unemployment? Does the road need to be repaired ain an area with unemployment? Are bridges falling apart? Are parks closing early due to a lack of staff?


    Pretty much, there are a lot of public services we NEED, but are not deemed DIRE enough to spend our limited budget on. Well, guess what? We're already spending our limited budget on unemployment. Why not put these people to work on some of these tasks, and have them learn a new skill (like how to pave a road or fill potholes)?


    The answer? Because it would interfere with some local politician's sweet gig of doling that work out to companies HE is invested in.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  5. #185
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


    Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
    Why do you refuse to include Americans other then righties or lefties?

    I guess you cannot think of minorities as equals.

  6. #186
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    *sigh*.

    So let's let you have it your way. No more social safety net:

    No more health care for children whose parent's can't afford health care for them.
    No more food stamps for those who can't afford enough food to feed their families.
    No more vocational rehab for the disabled so they can find work.
    No more unemployment insurance to provide a cushion when somebody gets laid off.
    No more free meals for poor kids at school.
    No more access to health care for the poor - heck, no more automatic access to care in the emergency room, either.
    No more rent assistance - if a family can't afford the rent, they're on the street and good riddance!
    No more taxpayer-funded job search assistance - if you can't find a job, tough luck.
    No more taxpayer-funded job training - if you can't afford to pay for the training, tough luck.
    No more taxpayer-funded assistance for the disabled - if they can't afford a wheelchair, they can crawl!
    No more taxpayer-funded access to nursing homes - if they can't afford the nursing home, out on the street they go!
    No more taxpayer-funded vaccinations - if you catch measles, tough luck - just die quickly so you don't spread it to others.

    Shall I go on?

    There was a commercial for Quaker State (or was it Pennzoil) back in the 1970's. In the commercial, the mechanic points out what happens when someone doesn't get their oil changed regularly, and shows the cost of oil changes as compared to what happens without those oil changes. The famous quote from that commercial was, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later."

    And so it goes with the social safety net - you can pay for it now...or you can pay for what happens because it's not there. But either way, you will pay.
    An appeal to emotion.

  7. #187
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    An appeal to emotion.
    An empty stomach isn't a matter of emotion...especially in the eyes of the parent who's trying to raise that child.

    You can call them 'appeals to emotion' all you want, but each and every one of those examples I gave aren't matters of emotion - they're precisely what would happen if we got rid of the social safety net...and then we'd get to see why third-world nations are the way they are.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #188
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Why do you refuse to include Americans other then righties or lefties?

    I guess you cannot think of minorities as equals.
    US Conservative has a likely tendency to think in exceptionally narrow Dichotomies, as evidenced by his poll (I still have yet to determine the scale of the narrowness in itself). He relies on a 1-dimensional view of politics to inform his view of the political landscape, when in reality the landscape can be defined as 2-dimensional, and even 3-Dimensional.

    This is an extremely Narrow and false view of politics:

    Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?-leftrightone-jpg

    When this view of politics is vastly more accurate and diverse:

    Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?-bothaxes-gif

    and this one even more so:

    Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?-ideology-confusing-jpg

    If US conservative would take the time to consider possibilities outside of his narrow, limited and current perceptions, he could grow his overall perspective to be much more advanced, well-informed, and considerate. That goes for anyone how likes to view things without much of a decent perspective or context.

  9. #189
    User ThesisQuasar's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    An appeal to emotion.
    This is an example of his narrow capacity to consider things. He never considered the possibility that the post he was attacking could be based on a set of principles rather than just raw emotion. He has also failed to consider that one can be emotional and rational at the same time. For example, when people get angry at a rapist and say it's wrong to rape people in their anger.

  10. #190
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    This thread isn't a liberal cry fest, kindly take it elsewhere.

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