View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #131
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Big government is easy to vote for, because that's how politicians get elected and re-elected by giving away the only commodity govt has..... money.
    It seems that many people are fine with delegating unsavory acts to elected functionaries, acts that they themselves would never undertake. Somehow people feel that having someone else do their dirty work absolves them of culpability.

    This is why I have to come down on the side of a night watchman state. I can't ask the state to do something that I would not feel ethically entitled to do myself.

  2. #132
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    You're not going to get a straight answer to your question. Conservatives are quick to yell and slow to listen. Ironic, considering that their Holy Book tells them to do just the opposite.
    There's this bloody spot on that brick wall. Maybe if I try just one. more. time. I can get it to crack before my skull does....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  3. #133
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Almost everyone wants to do a good job, and wants to add real value to their work.

    All I'm trying to do is to get people to look at what works in the real world, and what belongs in the dustbin of philosophical history. Socialized democracy works better than any other system in human history - that's what the results show. The only effective argument against socialized democracy is its sustainability in terms of raw material.
    There are other arguments against it. You just recognize the legitimacy of the one apparently. I do not agree that most people want to do be productive. I think most people want to get as much money as possible with the least effort as possible. My primary concerns are that companies would not adapt quickly enough to changing global markets and that it discourages people from being innovative in creating their own businesses with new products and services.

  4. #134
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Somewhere between the two. The world isn't black and white and our public policy can't be either.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #135
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If you'll read my post, it's not calculation - it's experience.

    Go spend some time with some homeless people and find out just how hard it is for them to find and hold a job, since they're homeless and don't have clean clothes and no place to take a bath. If they can't get a job, and if they can't get any help from the government, how will they eat?

    And that's how it starts. It's very hard to argue with an empty stomach...and the hungrier you are, the less you will care about what the law says.

    Again, go live in a third-world nation for a while, and get to know the truly poor, and learn how they live their lives. It's a real eye-opener.
    Actually your argument demands some sort of calculation as you said I would pay either way as if the cost was equal or greater without welfare. Crime rates might very well be higher without the welfare system, but I don't believe costs would be anywhere near as high without it.

  6. #136
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Actually your argument demands some sort of calculation as you said I would pay either way as if the cost was equal or greater without welfare. Crime rates might very well be higher without the welfare system, but I don't believe costs would be anywhere near as high without it.
    It's easy to downplay the costs when one imposes them by force on others.

  7. #137
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If you really hate taxes, then go live in a third-world nation where you'll pay little or no taxes. But if you want to live here, you've gotta pay that price of admission that is otherwise known as high taxes.

    I mean, really, you think you're entitled to have all the benefits of life in America without paying the taxes that are necessary to maintain that standard of living??? Seems to me that the ones with an entitlement fantasy are those who think that they can have all the benefits of life in a first-world democracy while paying little or no taxes!
    Again, I dont see why this is hard for you to grasp. Im not against taxation. Im against taxation for purposes of wealth redistribution. Taxes for military and police=acceptable. Taxes to allow politicians to buy votes by forcibly redistributing wealth=bad.

    Please read that again before responding.

  8. #138
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Private charity isn't sufficient to meet the basic needs of the general populace. Government involvement in the economy, whether it be in the form of environmental standards, public accomodation laws or supplemental income assistance, is vital in promoting macroeconomic growth and preventing social unrest, alongside fulfilling a moral good.
    How did man ever get by without big govt? And govts can't be moral because govts aren't people, but systems.

  9. #139
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Wrong answer! If you'll check, 'market forces' took a back seat during WWII. The government went very deeply in debt because of WWII. According to conservative economic dogma, all that SHOULD have driven us farther down into the Depression.

    But it didn't.

    What's more, according to conservative economic dogma, the 90% top marginal tax rate during the 1950's (and 70% until 1980) SHOULD have been utter disaster for the economy.

    But it wasn't.

    In other words, all you're doing is tossing out philosophical arguments...but the real-world RESULTS say something completely different.
    Watch the video, so many of your arguments are discussed. Its catchy as well.

  10. #140
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I sincerely doubt your views are 'formed empirically'. They can't be, unless you've walked a mile in liberal moccasins. I've lived both sides of the story - I was a strong conservative until my early 30's, and having been one, I know how conservatives generally think.

    Have you ever truly been a liberal? If you have not been one, then how do you get off pretending you know how we think?
    I have grown up surrounded by liberals, I live deep in the heart of liberalism-California. I know exactly what liberals are (and even voted for gore, eeesh) in fact it was one of the reasons I became a conservative-by growing up surrounded by liberals.

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