View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #121
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Still waiting on real-life, present-day examples of minarchism.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  2. #122
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you think the increase in crime would come out costing me more or less than the welfare state? I suppose to answer this question you would have to know what percentage of those that are taking welfare would turn to crime and what each inmate costs in relation to what each one of those individuals costs now as someone that receives welfare. Personally, I can't answer that question, but can you?

    Considering however that progressive taxation and income taxes are needed to fund the welfare state due to the demands of the system, I highly doubt it.
    I can indeed answer the question because I've lived in a third-world nation and could see first-hand what happens when the government won't and can't help the poor. When there's no jobs and you have no way of feeding your family without turning to crime, you turn to crime. It's awful doggone hard to argue with an empty stomach.

    And I notice you've completely refused to answer why it is that ALL the first-world democracies are big-government, high-effective-taxes, strong-regulation socialized democracies, and why it is that ALL 'small government' democracies are third-world nations.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Seriously? You're taking about taking peoples property to raise your standard of living and you're honestly calling other people entitled? Are you for real?
    There's the border - don't let the gate hit you on the way out to find your land of low-tax utopia....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  4. #124
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I can indeed answer the question because I've lived in a third-world nation and could see first-hand what happens when the government won't and can't help the poor. When there's no jobs and you have no way of feeding your family without turning to crime, you turn to crime. It's awful doggone hard to argue with an empty stomach.

    And I notice you've completely refused to answer why it is that ALL the first-world democracies are big-government, high-effective-taxes, strong-regulation socialized democracies, and why it is that ALL 'small government' democracies are third-world nations.
    You also didn't answer my question. I was looking for a calculation that tells me I would save money with your system, not rhetoric about people turning to crime.

  5. #125
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Tell that to all the other first-world socialized democracies that have far fewer homeless people, thanks to their anti-poverty campaigns.
    It is a matter of your preference. They are basically shorting the labor supply to keep wages and taxes up. For someone who looks at it just in terms of economics, it is acceptable; but if you are someone who puts real value into work--the whole holistic concept of what having a job, getting promoted, etc mean--then welfare is an anathema. To some work is a means to money, but for others it is so much more than just that.

  6. #126
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I can indeed answer the question because I've lived in a third-world nation and could see first-hand what happens when the government won't and can't help the poor. When there's no jobs and you have no way of feeding your family without turning to crime, you turn to crime. It's awful doggone hard to argue with an empty stomach.

    And I notice you've completely refused to answer why it is that ALL the first-world democracies are big-government, high-effective-taxes, strong-regulation socialized democracies, and why it is that ALL 'small government' democracies are third-world nations.
    You're not going to get a straight answer to your question. Conservatives are quick to yell and slow to listen. Ironic, considering that their Holy Book tells them to do just the opposite.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  7. #127
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    War also boost your economy when you blow the rest of the world into oblivion. It also helps when you move away from the gold standard and to a system of counterfeit money. Not that I support the gold standard either since it was just a different system promoted and put in place by bankers.

    As for the tax rates you just sighted, they are nothing but numbers on a piece of paper as no one paid them.
    Actually, do you know why the IRS was feared? It's because the IRS didn't play - and when people didn't pay, they went straight to jail. And FYI, the IRS first began using computerized tracking of taxes in 1961.

    Again, guy, if low taxes were indeed the way to an economic utopia, then none of the first-world democracies of today would be first-world nations. You're arguing against results, with only assumptions and philosophy to back you up.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #128
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Big government is easy to vote for, because that's how politicians get elected and re-elected by giving away the only commodity govt has..... money. Frankly I doubt you knew the answer.
    Oh, we all knew the answer all right...which is why we were so strongly against 'Citizens United', which effectively allowed the rich to spend all they wanted to spend on elections...and which effectively took the rest of us out of the equation.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #129
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You also didn't answer my question. I was looking for a calculation that tells me I would save money with your system, not rhetoric about people turning to crime.
    If you'll read my post, it's not calculation - it's experience.

    Go spend some time with some homeless people and find out just how hard it is for them to find and hold a job, since they're homeless and don't have clean clothes and no place to take a bath. If they can't get a job, and if they can't get any help from the government, how will they eat?

    And that's how it starts. It's very hard to argue with an empty stomach...and the hungrier you are, the less you will care about what the law says.

    Again, go live in a third-world nation for a while, and get to know the truly poor, and learn how they live their lives. It's a real eye-opener.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #130
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    It is a matter of your preference. They are basically shorting the labor supply to keep wages and taxes up. For someone who looks at it just in terms of economics, it is acceptable; but if you are someone who puts real value into work--the whole holistic concept of what having a job, getting promoted, etc mean--then welfare is an anathema. To some work is a means to money, but for others it is so much more than just that.
    Almost everyone wants to do a good job, and wants to add real value to their work.

    All I'm trying to do is to get people to look at what works in the real world, and what belongs in the dustbin of philosophical history. Socialized democracy works better than any other system in human history - that's what the results show. The only effective argument against socialized democracy is its sustainability in terms of raw material.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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