View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #101
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Paying at the end of a govt rifle isn't really my thing. Im not a fan of coercion.
    Same. Not a fan of coercion. That's why I would opt for the state to use its violence to do as little as possible. A night watchman state is the minimum possible.

    Anything that I would not consider it legitimate for me to do to my neighbor, I won't support the state doing that.

  2. #102
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    So in other words, minarchism is a hypothetical? Not including one's personal interpretation of the early days of the United States, there are no national-level examples of minarchism anywhere on the planet?
    I think it reflects the creeping nature of govt in general. Remember, the govt defines success by the number of people dependent on it. More dependence, more power.

  3. #103
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Except we have more prisons and a welfare state now.
    And we have more prisons thanks to the war on drugs. If you'll check, the other 'welfare states' in Europe have FAR fewer prisons...and some of them have higher standards of living than America.

    If you want to live in a much freer nation with far lower taxes, there's lots of third-world nations that would do just fine for you. But if you want to live in a first-world nation, you've got to pay the price of admission...also known as 'high taxes'.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  4. #104
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    So in other words, minarchism is a hypothetical? Not including one's personal interpretation of the early days of the United States, there are no national-level examples of minarchism anywhere on the planet?
    Yes, all systems of government had a time when they were never tried before. It happens.

  5. #105
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Same. Not a fan of coercion. That's why I would opt for the state to use its violence to do as little as possible. A night watchman state is the minimum possible.

    Anything that I would not consider it legitimate for me to do to my neighbor, I won't support the state doing that.
    This seems quite reasonable to me, why isn't it more popular? Is it because people have been conditioned to think the govt is the source of all things good?

  6. #106
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Arguably progressive policies made it worse, actually. It was great for consolidating govt control and making people think govt was the bees knees though.
    If 'big government' made it worse, then why is it that the biggest government-funded stimulus in American history - WWII - got us out of the Depression instead of sending us even deeper into the Depression?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  7. #107
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think it reflects the creeping nature of govt in general. Remember, the govt defines success by the number of people dependent on it. More dependence, more power.
    As expected, you did not answer my question. I would like some real-live, present-day, examples of minarchism.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And we have more prisons thanks to the war on drugs. If you'll check, the other 'welfare states' in Europe have FAR fewer prisons...and some of them have higher standards of living than America.

    If you want to live in a much freer nation with far lower taxes, there's lots of third-world nations that would do just fine for you. But if you want to live in a first-world nation, you've got to pay the price of admission...also known as 'high taxes'.
    The war on poverty has been every bit as destructive and failed as the war on drugs.

  9. #109
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Because that has been the trend since the 18th century(I think) all around the world.



    I have no choice in that, so why even bother with that argument?
    You have all the choice in the world - nobody's stopping you from moving to a third-world nation in Africa or South America or Southeast Asia. Go ahead - there's the border. Don't let the gate hit you on the way out. But if you want to stay here, you've gotta pay the price of admission...otherwise known as high taxes.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #110
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And we have more prisons thanks to the war on drugs. If you'll check, the other 'welfare states' in Europe have FAR fewer prisons...and some of them have higher standards of living than America.

    If you want to live in a much freer nation with far lower taxes, there's lots of third-world nations that would do just fine for you. But if you want to live in a first-world nation, you've got to pay the price of admission...also known as 'high taxes'.
    Do you think the increase in crime would come out costing me more or less than the welfare state? I suppose to answer this question you would have to know what percentage of those that are taking welfare would turn to crime and what each inmate costs in relation to what each one of those individuals costs now as someone that receives welfare. Personally, I can't answer that question, but can you?

    Considering however that progressive taxation and income taxes are needed to fund the welfare state due to the demands of the system, I highly doubt it.
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-24-14 at 09:05 PM.

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