View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
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Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #91
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you even realize how bizarre that argument is? Taking peoples property by force is not somehow a good thing, so when your focus with tax revenue becomes helping people you're going to be taking even more from them, which means you will actually be acting even more aggressively towards the peoples property. All you really did was turn something that the founders couldn't avoid into a tool to throw around the governments influence.

    Your argument is really no different than those people that say we should help out other nations, but never realize that such an action calls for even more tax revenue and puts American lives in danger.
    Then why is it that ALL the first-world democracies are high-tax, big-government, high-regulation socialized democracies?

    If you want to go back to what the founders had, then go live in some third-world nation. You'll find out that there's a heck of a lot you can do there that you can't do here...like paying little or no taxes, for instance. But if you want to live in a prosperous first-world nation, then you must pay the price of admission to live there...also known as high taxes.

    Either pay the price of admission...or go somewhere else.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  2. #92
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I'm sure there's a hundred million or so people who lived through the Great Depression who might argue otherwise....
    Arguably progressive policies made it worse, actually. It was great for consolidating govt control and making people think govt was the bees knees though.

  3. #93
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Then why is it that ALL the first-world democracies are high-tax, big-government, high-regulation socialized democracies?
    Because that has been the trend since the 18th century(I think) all around the world.

    If you want to go back to what the founders had, then go live in some third-world nation. You'll find out that there's a heck of a lot you can do there that you can't do here...like paying little or no taxes, for instance. But if you want to live in a prosperous first-world nation, then you must pay the price of admission to live there...also known as high taxes.

    Either pay the price of admission...or go somewhere else.
    I have no choice in that, so why even bother with that argument?

  4. #94
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The USSR was a welfare state. By the provided definitions and otherwise.
    And the cow jumped over the moon, too.

    The USSR was not a socialized DEMOCRACY. The nations with the highest standards of living in human history are ALL socialized DEMOCRACIES. The nations that won the Cold War were socialized DEMOCRACIES.

    America IS a socialized DEMOCRACY. The USSR never was. Please stop comparing apples and oranges...because it's looking like you're caring more about winning than about having a sincere, logical discussion.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #95
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Ah. And it's the same old argument that if someone's in a crappy situation, it's always because of their own poor choices, that it can't be because they were born and raised in a crappy situation that was never their choice to begin with.

    And as I've pointed out before, you pay anyway. You either pay the extra taxes to help them out...or you pay the extra taxes (and other costs) for what happens when they see no hope of a better life at all (like more police, more jails, more courts, higher insurance prices, higher retail prices, lower wages...).
    Paying at the end of a govt rifle isn't really my thing. Im not a fan of coercion. And in any case the entitlement welfare state has got to go for numerous reasons.

  6. #96
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The problem with your statement is that when you say infrastructure I think roads and bridges, not entitlements and a dependent citizenry.
    Hate to tell you this, but you pay anyway. You either pay to help out the poor, or you pay for the results of what happens when there's no help for the poor...but in any case, you pay anyway.

    And FYI, if you'll check, I also referred to roads and bridges as part of our infrastructure. I also included education. And military protection of our commerce. And our diplomatic efforts to encourage international trade. And police and fire protection. And support for our ever-more-crucial space program. All of these are part of our infrastructure.

    And so is helping out the less fortunate...because if you don't pay to help them out, you'll pay anyway for what happens when they get no help at all...but you pay anyway.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #97
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I agree that there aren't real world examples of minarchism on a national scale
    So in other words, minarchism is a hypothetical? Not including one's personal interpretation of the early days of the United States, there are no national-level examples of minarchism anywhere on the planet?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Look, guy, you're just tossing out wild assumptions about those on the left that are every bit as wrong as are the assumptions by many on the left about those on the right. You know better than to do that.
    My views are formed empirically. In a way its evidence of our own success, this self-hate is seen after several generations of financial success, most often where the individual takes the things he's earned for granted. Its a fascinating dichotomy to me.

  9. #99
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Minarchism ( in it's strictest form) is no more palatable than Communism and Socialism.
    Why do you say this? Its not the same as the absence of charity or support, its just not from the govt.

  10. #100
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    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Except that is not how it works at all. No, the fifties don't prove your point either.



    I side with property rights.
    Then feel free to show exactly why ALL the first-world democracies are socialized democracies with big government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation...and ALL the democracies that have 'small government' are third world nations.

    Why is that, guy?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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