View Poll Results: Could you deport them personally or not?

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  • Yes, I think I could do it.

    31 51.67%
  • No, I don't think I could.

    29 48.33%
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Thread: Deportation Question.

  1. #341
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I generally find you to be a very reasonable poster on here. So why on earth would you compare someone that comes to this country illegally with murderers and rapists?
    Perhaps you missed the larger point. If we have laws which are applied very selectively then that violates equal protection of the law and becomes a cuteness contest. We estimate that there are now millions of illegal aliens inside of US borders and seem to be discussing which of them are to be declared, by administrative fiat, no longer illegal aliens.

    To keep it simple, let's say we have identified 4 illegal aliens, all now age 28, claiming to have come from Mexico into Texas, one came here in 2006 and remains single, one came in 2008 and has 3 children (one US born and two not), one came in 2010 and remains single and the other came in 2012 and has 2 children (one US born and one not). All of them lack proof of continuous employment but insist that they work as often as they can find work, usually construction jobs, and do not wish to get any of their past (or current) employers into any trouble. None of them have any substantial criminal records beyond minor traffic violations, none have educations beyond the eight grade and none speak English fluently. Which, among those 4, should be subject to deportation and which are to be granted permission to stay for 3 years?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #342
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    When they crossed the border they broke the law. If they robbed a bank then had kids then got caught you still send them to prison even if it breaks up the family. Same thing.
    Not really, because you are comparing a misdemeanor with a felony.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #343
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The law is the law. If you get pulled over for 80 in a 70, all the appeals to "everyone else does it" will not help you. Not even if you have kids.
    You are correct, but the analogy is a bit off. Police make their own decisions all the time which offenses to enforce and which to let slide. You will probably get pulled over for going 81 in a 70, but probably will not for going 74 in a 70... and both are no more or less breaking the law than the other.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #344
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That makes no sense. If you are the guy with arrest authority and deportation capability whose job it is to burst in on people, then it is your job to enforce public policy.

    It's like asking "Let's say that you find yourself a member of one of the units slated for the push in 2003, but don't personally agree with the idea of invading Iraq. Do you follow orders, even though you think it's the wrong policy move?". Your opinion of the policy is irrelevant. It is your function to enforce it.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the poll question. Its an ethical question, not a legal one. The premise is not you are a DHS agent, would you do your duty. The premise is, its your personal decision, could you do this. It is "you are king for a day but you have to get your hands dirty" type of question.

    I think that public policy should be that they should be deported unless there are some kind of extreme circumstances. However, that doesn't mean that I could do it personally if it was all on me.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #345
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Not really, because you are comparing a misdemeanor with a felony.
    No, he is saying that those who break the law bear upon themselves culpability for the consequences of their doing so.

  6. #346
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the poll question. Its an ethical question, not a legal one. The premise is not you are a DHS agent, would you do your duty. The premise is, its your personal decision, could you do this.
    The one is the other. If you have the ability to do this, then it is your duty to do this.

    I think that public policy should be that they should be deported unless there are some kind of extreme circumstances. However, that doesn't mean that I could do it personally if it was all on me.
    Ah. Sort of a "I couldn't personally kill people but I still think we should have a military" sort of position. That is not what I have thought you were arguing, you seemed instead to be arguing that if they had kids they shouldn't be deported, not that you personally couldn't pull the trigger on it. Allright - mea culpa on that.



    I one time had to clean up a kid from pieces of his father that we had blown all over him. The rule was simple - do not accelerate your vehicle towards a checkpoint, ignoring stop signs and flags and warnings, unless you want to get mistaken for a suicide car bomb. For me, at least compared to the decision to gun people down in front of their family, this one is relatively easy, especially since the kids will be able to recover their residency upon the age of majority.

  7. #347
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    It is the employer's fault, they are the ones with the power and freedom to choose. Obeying these laws is not bending over to fix problems, it is being a decent person.

    It is the employer's moral and legal responsibility to pay the minimum wage and provide safe working conditions. The employer chooses whether to do the right thing or increase profits. Besides exploiting his employees, he is driving down wages for all workers in the region and unfairly hurting his competitors.

    A poor immigrant worker is desperate and must work to survive and has little choice in the situation. The employer who breaks the law to exploit desperate workers is an exploitive scumbag and deserves to be prosecuted. A poor person trying to feed his family is not reponsible for the problems created by the exploitive employer.

    That conservatives don't understand this is a symptom of their sociopathy and/or brainwashing by big business interests (Stockholder's Syndrome)
    It isnt their fault, or their job. Their job is to produce stuff, not to enforce the law. Thats the job of the govt.

  8. #348
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    You want to amend the constitution?
    See, this is why I've always been against constitutions. They're nothing but heroic language that becomes an encumberance. Before the Bill of Rights and Freedoms was passed in Canada my rights were well protected by British Common Law, which has evolved for long centuries to reflect the changes in society. Constitution? Bah. Now you have to amend yours if you want to make a simple legal change. You can hardly pass a law without first proving it's constitutionality.
    Good luck with your 'anchor baby' cause. Ain't gonna happen, mark my words.
    Encumbrance is a GOOD thing. Its the whole point.

  9. #349
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The one is the other. If you have the ability to do this, then it is your duty to do this.



    Ah. Sort of a "I couldn't personally kill people but I still think we should have a military" sort of position.
    Its more than just that. For example, I am against vigilante justice. If someone killed one of my kids, I would want to kill them, and that is precisely why I shouldn't be allowed to. There is a lot cognitive dissonance in life, this is just one of example of it. Personally, I think the vast majority of people that voted yes in this poll could not actually do it if it was their personal decision and they had to get their hands dirty. That doesn't mean at a macro level / public policy level its a bad idea to deport those that are here illegally, it just means at the individual level its much grayer than most people are willing to admit.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #350
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

    It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?
    If they lived and worked in the US for 15 years they will most probably be given amnesty by ICE anyway (provided they werent convicted of any crime) so its a moot point. A Mexican friend of mine got his green card when they gave him amnesty.

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