View Poll Results: Could you deport them personally or not?

Voters
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  • Yes, I think I could do it.

    31 51.67%
  • No, I don't think I could.

    29 48.33%
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Thread: Deportation Question.

  1. #301
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Why?

    The people who hire illegal aliens provide an incentive to immigrate illegally, and profit and gain advantage over their law-abiding competitors by paying lower wages to illegal immigrants that they can with legal residents. If anyone is causing harm to our workers it is the businesses that profit from the cheap labor they obtain by exploiting illegal aliens.
    Because it not their fault. They shouldnt have to bend over to fix the problems the govt is responsible for. Punish the people sneaking in. Punish govt incompetence.

  2. #302
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What is the rationale for that (bolded above) plan? The two parts are in direct conflict with each other. The "good" illegal aliens are to be made legal (based on them having jobs right?) but their "bad" employer is to be fined for having provided them the very job that made them "good" illegal aliens? That seems simply insane.
    Not really. If a way is open for illegals to gain legal status while in the US, then the floodgates will open for people hoping for amnesty once they get here, as happened back in '86. If the illegals have to go back to their home country to get legal status, then there won't be any such incentive. Therefore, there needs to be a way to incentivize leaving the country. Since they're mostly here for the jobs (the ones we'd want to keep are anyway), the best way to get them to leave is to make sure that their employers want them to leave, at least temporarily. Moreover, the ones who fail a background check could simply be denied re entry, and would have no reason not to just stay in the old country. We'd be rid of criminals, the illegals who are an asset would no longer have to hide out, and there would be no incentive for the millions more back home to start making travel plans and looking northward. It's a perfect compromise.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  3. #303
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not really. If a way is open for illegals to gain legal status while in the US, then the floodgates will open for people hoping for amnesty once they get here, as happened back in '86. If the illegals have to go back to their home country to get legal status, then there won't be any such incentive. Therefore, there needs to be a way to incentivize leaving the country. Since they're mostly here for the jobs (the ones we'd want to keep are anyway), the best way to get them to leave is to make sure that their employers want them to leave, at least temporarily. Moreover, the ones who fail a background check could simply be denied re entry, and would have no reason not to just stay in the old country. We'd be rid of criminals, the illegals who are an asset would no longer have to hide out, and there would be no incentive for the millions more back home to start making travel plans and looking northward. It's a perfect compromise.
    The idea of "self deportation", aka the Romney plan, still does not address what happens to anchor babies. These are US citizens that will surely return to the US but probably not as well educated as if they are permitted to remain. In essence, they still get the shaft whether voluntarily deported or forcibly deported.

    Pretending that 5K ICE agents can enforce that no illegal alien employment policy is also a joke - we now use 10 times that many TSA agents just to enforce airport security How, exact;y, would you check for compliance by millions of US employers from large corporations to mom & pop operations and common folks hiring nannies, building contractors and lawn maintenance workers?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #304
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The idea of "self deportation", aka the Romney plan, still does not address what happens to anchor babies. These are US citizens that will surely return to the US but probably not as well educated as if they are permitted to remain. In essence, they still get the shaft whether voluntarily deported or forcibly deported.

    Pretending that 5K ICE agents can enforce that no illegal alien employment policy is also a joke - we now use 10 times that many TSA agents just to enforce airport security How, exact;y, would you check for compliance by millions of US employers from large corporations to mom & pop operations and common folks hiring nannies, building contractors and lawn maintenance workers?
    The self deportation I'm talking about is really just a temporary deportation.

    Would it really be that difficult to enforce the law? If so, then use fines to hire people to do it. Employers would get the message pretty quickly, and wouldn't wait to be fined anyway.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The self deportation I'm talking about is really just a temporary deportation.

    Would it really be that difficult to enforce the law? If so, then use fines to hire people to do it. Employers would get the message pretty quickly, and wouldn't wait to be fined anyway.
    Yes it would be very difficult - just as hard as getting rid of drug dealers. I would venture to say that drug dealers are a very small number of folks compared to all US employers. How would you define "probable cause" in order to check the status of an employers staff? I can think of one very good one - in order to get Obama amnesty each illegal alien must name, and testify against, whoever had employed them.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #306
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yes it would be very difficult - just as hard as getting rid of drug dealers. I would venture to say that drug dealers are a very small number of folks compared to all US employers. How would you define "probable cause" in order to check the status of an employers staff? I can think of one very good one - in order to get Obama amnesty each illegal alien must name, and testify against, whoever had employed them.
    It's time to start thinking pragmatic, not ideological. It is far more pragmatic to fine employers than it is to try to deport millions of people, for example. The pragmatic way to get rid of most of the drug dealers is to make their enterprise unprofitable by legalizing most drugs, decriminalizing others. What we need is a pragmatic approach to reducing drug addiction, not an ideological "war on drugs" that has been proven not to work.

    Get the employers jittery about fines, and they'll have a little talk with the employees that they know to be or suspect to be illegal. The ones who don't check out will be given a bit of vacation time to go back home and visit old friends, and maybe go by the American consulate while they're there.

    As it is, illegals are more desirable as employees in jobs at the bottom rung, as they're unlikely to complain, to strike, or to go to authorities over unfair employment practices. They're not only cheap, but compliant. Right now, employers have an incentive to hire illegals over legal immigrants or citizens.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  7. #307
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It's time to start thinking pragmatic, not ideological. It is far more pragmatic to fine employers than it is to try to deport millions of people, for example. The pragmatic way to get rid of most of the drug dealers is to make their enterprise unprofitable by legalizing most drugs, decriminalizing others. What we need is a pragmatic approach to reducing drug addiction, not an ideological "war on drugs" that has been proven not to work.

    Get the employers jittery about fines, and they'll have a little talk with the employees that they know to be or suspect to be illegal. The ones who don't check out will be given a bit of vacation time to go back home and visit old friends, and maybe go by the American consulate while they're there.

    As it is, illegals are more desirable as employees in jobs at the bottom rung, as they're unlikely to complain, to strike, or to go to authorities over unfair employment practices. They're not only cheap, but compliant. Right now, employers have an incentive to hire illegals over legal immigrants or citizens.
    My point remains; who has the political will to frog march a restaurant owner off to jail for hiring Jose that claimed to be work eligible? Even if they did have the will where would they get the necessary funding (or legal authority) to check millions of employer's current workers? When I see E-verify mentioned it almost always has the huge loophole of applying only to new hires and "large" employers.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #308
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    My point remains; who has the political will to frog march a restaurant owner off to jail for hiring Jose that claimed to be work eligible? Even if they did have the will where would they get the necessary funding (or legal authority) to check millions of employer's current workers? When I see E-verify mentioned it almost always has the huge loophole of applying only to new hires and "large" employers.
    No one has to be "frog marched" anywhere. All that has to happen is that fines have to be levied that make hiring illegals uneconomical, that's all. The INS already has the authority to do that.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No one has to be "frog marched" anywhere. All that has to happen is that fines have to be levied that make hiring illegals uneconomical, that's all. The INS already has the authority to do that.
    Yet they do not. Why is that? Could it be that they pay politicians not to allow that to happen?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #310
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yet they do not. Why is that? Could it be that they pay politicians not to allow that to happen?
    They being the INS?

    or they being the employers of illegals?

    Nothing gets done unless the big donors want it done.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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