View Poll Results: Could you deport them personally or not?

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  • Yes, I think I could do it.

    31 51.67%
  • No, I don't think I could.

    29 48.33%
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Thread: Deportation Question.

  1. #241
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    It wouldn't require repealing the entire amendment. All they need to do is pass another amendment repealing that one specific part.

    I've said it before, but I'll repeat it: I would not eliminate it completely. I would modify it to be that one must be born here AND have at least one biological parent already a citizen.
    I dont think where you are born should have anything to do with it. If you are born to an american citizen, you are an american citizen. And vice versa, simply being born on american soil should have nothing to do with citizenship.

  2. #242
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    I dont think where you are born should have anything to do with it. If you are born to an american citizen, you are an american citizen. And vice versa, simply being born on american soil should have nothing to do with citizenship.
    That would be an acceptable alternative.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    that was not my question. Your post seem to suggest that you believed that aliens are arrested and sent to prison.
    Bypassing a port of entry and illegally entering the country is a criminal offense that carry's a fine and six month sentence for the first offense. But only a few number ever pay the fine and spend any time behind bars. Basically we don't enforce the laws that are on the books. As long as the government refuses to enforce our laws they will keep coming.

  4. #244
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    It is important to understand how U.S. law works with respect to arrests and deportation of parents with minor children.

    If both parents are arrested at once or the only parent the child has in America is arrested, the children go to child protective services (CPS).

    CPS works with the parents to determine if the children have relatives or parental preferred people in the U.S. with whom they can stay in the interim, and that's where they're placed pending deportation. Otherwise they are placed in temporary foster care pending deportation.

    When deportation occurs, the parents get to choose if they want their children to go with them.

    If they choose to have their children go with them in deportation, and the children are not U.S. citizens, the children go with them.

    If they choose to have their children go with them in deportation, and the children are U.S. citizens, then CPS determines if the environment to which they are going is safe-acceptable, and, if it is, then the children either go with them during deportation or they are sent to their parents once their parents are established back in their country of citizenship, but, if it's determined that the environment is unsafe-unacceptable, then the children are placed in more permanent foster care while the parents are deported and a period of time passes for the parents to get established in a safe-acceptable environment.

    If the parents choose not to have their children go with them in deportation, then the children are placed in foster care by CPS. If the children are not U.S. citizens, then their country of citizenship may call to have them brought to the country later, or the parents may call for the children. If the children are U.S. citizens, then an attempt is made to find permanent homes for them here in America. If the parents don't call for them within a specified amount of time, then they are considered abandoned, and may be adopted here in the U.S.

    It's important to remember that the parents brought any family-member hardships upon themselves; it's not the fault of any branch of the U.S. government -- it's solely the fault of the parents who knew this would rightly happen if they got caught committing their crimes.

    The primary reason there are thousands of children separated from their parents who were deported is because the parents either chose to leave their kids here either temporarily or permanently, again, for which they and they alone are at fault.

    The secondary reason there are thousands of children separated from their parents who were deported is because the parents couldn't find a safe-acceptable place from CPS's perspective to allow U.S. citizen children to go with their parents.

    This is all very, very sad.

    It is important, however, to understand that the sadness of it is no excuse of the law. The parents violated many U.S. laws, some of which are felonies, in stealing American citizens' jobs, classrooms, living-space, road-space, etc. .. including, clearly and obviously, child endangerment.

    It is simply wrong to point the finger at U.S. law-enforcement and criminal justice agencies.

    They must carry out their duties in a country that operates under rule of law.

    If we were to make such undue exceptions because people suffer when criminals get caught, then we'd have to do it all the time to be fair .. and we'd have a dictatorship, not rule of law.

    Again, the illegal aliens only have themselves to blame, and no one else.

    Another reason why it's so important that we beef up border security so that trespassing can no longer occur, thereby eventually putting an end to this tragic aspect caused solely by the illegal aliens themselves.
    If the parents have moved from a place that is unsafe-unacceptable according to CPS, then it's their fault and they have no one else to blame but themselves. Moreover, having done so makes them guilty of child endangerment.

    And, it's the parent's choice as long as the kiddos aren't American citizens. Otherwise, the wise and all powerful government gets to decide whether the place to which they're deporting the parents is safe enough to allow them to keep their children.

    And, if the employers of illegals are powerful enough, have enough influence, to see to it that the illegals are able to come across the border and work for them, then the illegals are stealing from the rest of us.

    I fail to see the logic to all of that.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #245
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Not everywhere else, but some places. My son grew up in a very multicultural area (Surrey, BC) and he and a group of friends were headed south to a rock concert in Seattle. One of the group was travelling on a Lebanese passport but had never been in Lebanon. He was born in Abu Dhabi with a Lebanese father which made him Lebanese in Muslim culture. After hours trying to sort this all out the whole group was sent back to Canada.
    I thought that when I was typing it, but then I couldn't think of anywhere where it wasn't the case. Can you? I mean other than here in the US. AFAIK everywhere else, citizenship follow parentage.

  6. #246
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If the parents have moved from a place that is unsafe-unacceptable according to CPS,
    Child Protective Services (CPS) is not involved at all when the illegal aliens trespass into America.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    then it's their fault and they have no one else to blame but themselves.
    Your syllogisms reflect skewed thinking.

    So the conclusions simply don't follow.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Moreover, having done so makes them guilty of child endangerment.


    Again, pure illogical nonsense.

    Reality remains that if the illegal alien parents have children, CPS gets involved during deportation activities to act in the best interest of the children.

    CPS doesn't get involved unless they're aware that there's a situation that needs their attention, which occurs when they become aware that some illegal alien parents have children.

    The choice to declare their children is that of the illegal alien parents, and many parents, once apprehended for their crimes, don't tell the authorities they have kids, simply making their "one phone call" to those who will look after their kids .. until they can again attempt to re-trespass into America.

    Reality remains that CPS is more involved when they discover that there are U.S. citizen children than if there isn't U.S. citizen children.

    Keep in mind, that the 22-23 illegal aliens in America represent a mere tiny fraction of the world's population in similar socioeconomic-geopolitical circumstances as these 22-23 million, and that overwhelming vast majority of people chose to stay in their country and work for change to improve their people's and their country's living conditions. That a tiny fraction chose to bring their children along with them to commit on-site crimes in America, though within the normal percentage of criminal activity, is, nonetheless, still child endangerment behavior.

    It's the crimes they commit with their children here in America that is their child endangerment behavior, according to law.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    And, it's the parent's choice as long as the kiddos aren't American citizens.
    False, and obviously so.

    Please reread my post you quoted.

    You will see that it's the parents' choice always as to whether or not the children will be left behind.

    They have first choice always.

    Quite a number of parents have chosen to leave their children behind, their illegal alien children they brought with them when they trespassed into America to steal other people's jobs.

    But others chose to take their illegal alien children with them at deportation time.

    If the children are American citizens, our laws require that CPS get involved in the interest of the children because the children are U.S. citizens.

    The parents can still choose to leave those children behind, and, sadly again, many of them do .. sadly, that is, from the perspective of families being torn apart, the fault of which lies squarely with the illegal alien parents and no one else.

    However, since the U.S. citizen children are underage, their illegal alien parents can choose to take them with them, but CPS must first determine if the conditions to which they're bringing the children are safe-acceptable.

    "Safe-acceptable" does not mean that these conditions must be middle-class American economically, it means that the children will be fed, sheltered, and not in danger of abuse, according to the safe-acceptable norm in that country.

    If you have a problem with this, remember that CPS involvement is simply the right thing to do, and that the illegal aliens brought this all on themselves; it's no one else's fault.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  7. #247
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That would be an acceptable alternative.
    Which means itll never happen

  8. #248
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Otherwise, the wise and all powerful government gets to decide whether the place to which they're deporting the parents is safe enough to allow them to keep their children.
    Yeah .. typical libertarian "big bad government" meme.

    Your anarchical extremism is noted .. and is irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    And, if the employers of illegals are powerful enough, have enough influence, to see to it that the illegals are able to come across the border and work for them, then the illegals are stealing from the rest of us.
    Your premise clauses are clearly and obviously false.

    Thus your "then" conclusion is false.

    Obviously very skewed reasoning that results in an illogical and thus erroneous conclusion.

    The unscrupulous owners-managers in America who are the criminal accomplices in violating U.S. employment law do not have any power sufficient to "see to it that the illegals are able to come across the border".

    All the power rests with our governing officials who derive their power by the consent of the governed.

    All crime is based on a lure.

    It the person takes the bait, then they are a criminal.

    If you are a citizen in another country living there and someone here in America says, "hey, if you to trespass, forge false or steal another person's identity, violate U.S. employment law, violate U.S. customs requirements, commit other related frauds in the process of stealing American citizens' jobs, classrooms, living-space, road-space, etc., some of which are felonies, then they'll pay you here", do you not know that it is you who will be committing all those crimes, and the person luring you into America, who's likely another illegal alien, is telling you about how he's gotten away with these crimes so far ..

    .. and if you take the bait and come here committing those crimes, just who do you think is going to take the brunt of the penalty when you're caught?

    That's right, you, and rightly so.

    That you were "encouraged" or "offered" to take an opportunity to commit multiple crimes is no excuse of the law.

    The fault of their penalties incurred upon apprehension rests solely with those who voluntarily chose to commit the crimes, regardless of the lure.

    The fact remains that the overwhelming vast majority of people in similar circumstances simply choose not to become multiple-count criminals and attempt to improve their lot at the expense of stealing from others.

    That a very tiny fragment of people in that same situation do choose to take the lure and commit crimes in no way either excuses those crimes or indicates that the criminal actions shouldn't be simply that: criminal.

    Thus when hardship befalls the illegal alien criminal's family, rightly the party to blame is the criminal, the illegal alien.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  9. #249
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Child Protective Services (CPS) is not involved at all when the illegal aliens trespass into America.



    Your syllogisms reflect skewed thinking.

    So the conclusions simply don't follow.





    Again, pure illogical nonsense.

    Reality remains that if the illegal alien parents have children, CPS gets involved during deportation activities to act in the best interest of the children.

    CPS doesn't get involved unless they're aware that there's a situation that needs their attention, which occurs when they become aware that some illegal alien parents have children.

    The choice to declare their children is that of the illegal alien parents, and many parents, once apprehended for their crimes, don't tell the authorities they have kids, simply making their "one phone call" to those who will look after their kids .. until they can again attempt to re-trespass into America.

    Reality remains that CPS is more involved when they discover that there are U.S. citizen children than if there isn't U.S. citizen children.
    Right, in the case when the INS is deporting the parents back to the place they came from, where children are not safe, and yet you're claiming that the parents aren't acting in the best interests of their yet unborn children by moving from that same place where children aren't safe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Keep in mind, that the 22-23 illegal aliens in America represent a mere tiny fraction of the world's population in similar socioeconomic-geopolitical circumstances as these 22-23 million, and that overwhelming vast majority of people chose to stay in their country and work for change to improve their people's and their country's living conditions. That a tiny fraction chose to bring their children along with them to commit on-site crimes in America, though within the normal percentage of criminal activity, is, nonetheless, still child endangerment behavior.

    It's the crimes they commit with their children here in America that is their child endangerment behavior, according to law.



    False, and obviously so.

    Please reread my post you quoted.

    You will see that it's the parents' choice always as to whether or not the children will be left behind.
    OK, here's the post I quoted:

    The secondary reason there are thousands of children separated from their parents who were deported is because the parents couldn't find a safe-acceptable place from CPS's perspective to allow U.S. citizen children to go with their parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy;They have first choice [i
    always[/i].
    Not so, according to your previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Quite a number of parents have chosen to leave their children behind, their illegal alien children they brought with them when they trespassed into America to steal other people's jobs.

    But others chose to take their illegal alien children with them at deportation time.

    If the children are American citizens, our laws require that CPS get involved in the interest of the children because the children are U.S. citizens.

    The parents can still choose to leave those children behind, and, sadly again, many of them do .. sadly, that is, from the perspective of families being torn apart, the fault of which lies squarely with the illegal alien parents and no one else.

    However, since the U.S. citizen children are underage, their illegal alien parents can choose to take them with them, but CPS must first determine if the conditions to which they're bringing the children are safe-acceptable.

    "Safe-acceptable" does not mean that these conditions must be middle-class American economically, it means that the children will be fed, sheltered, and not in danger of abuse, according to the safe-acceptable norm in that country.

    If you have a problem with this, remember that CPS involvement is simply the right thing to do, and that the illegal aliens brought this all on themselves; it's no one else's fault.
    Sure, the government looked the other way while they came here to work, and the all knowing and wise government knows best what to do with the children who were born in the interim between coming here and being sent back home. You have a lot more faith in government than I do.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #250
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yeah .. typical libertarian "big bad government" meme.

    Your anarchical extremism is noted .. and is irrelevant.
    Anarchal extremism? Is that what you call limited government? No wonder the growth of the federal government is out of control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Your premise clauses are clearly and obviously false.

    Thus your "then" conclusion is false.

    Obviously very skewed reasoning that results in an illogical and thus erroneous conclusion.

    The unscrupulous owners-managers in America who are the criminal accomplices in violating U.S. employment law do not have any power sufficient to "see to it that the illegals are able to come across the border".
    They've been successful at keeping the border open ever since the Eisenhower administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    All the power rests with our governing officials who derive their power by the consent of the governed.
    In an ideal world. In the real world, however, the consent of the powerful and wealthy is far and away more important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    All crime is based on a lure.

    It the person takes the bait, then they are a criminal.

    If you are a citizen in another country living there and someone here in America says, "hey, if you to trespass, forge false or steal another person's identity, violate U.S. employment law, violate U.S. customs requirements, commit other related frauds in the process of stealing American citizens' jobs, classrooms, living-space, road-space, etc., some of which are felonies, then they'll pay you here", do you not know that it is you who will be committing all those crimes, and the person luring you into America, who's likely another illegal alien, is telling you about how he's gotten away with these crimes so far ..
    He's more likely to be an employer of illegal aliens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    .. and if you take the bait and come here committing those crimes, just who do you think is going to take the brunt of the penalty when you're caught?
    Certainly not the wealthy and powerful nor their minions in Washington.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    That's right, you, and rightly so.

    That you were "encouraged" or "offered" to take an opportunity to commit multiple crimes is no excuse of the law.

    The fault of their penalties incurred upon apprehension rests solely with those who voluntarily chose to commit the crimes, regardless of the lure.

    The fact remains that the overwhelming vast majority of people in similar circumstances simply choose not to become multiple-count criminals and attempt to improve their lot at the expense of stealing from others.

    That a very tiny fragment of people in that same situation do choose to take the lure and commit crimes in no way either excuses those crimes or indicates that the criminal actions shouldn't be simply that: criminal.

    Thus when hardship befalls the illegal alien criminal's family, rightly the party to blame is the criminal, the illegal alien.
    and the government that has been making it possible for them to come for the past six decades.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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