View Poll Results: Could you deport them personally or not?

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  • Yes, I think I could do it.

    31 51.67%
  • No, I don't think I could.

    29 48.33%
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Thread: Deportation Question.

  1. #181
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Do you really have such little regard for the value of America as a country and the privilege/right of citizenship? I doubt your parents, their parents, and generations of parents before them fought to create and protect your country so it could so easily be overrun and given away.
    My grandparents saved their lives by coming to this country and avoiding the Nazis and pogroms. They did not have to wait for years and pay tens of thousands of dollars for fees and lawyers to do so. If they came later they probably would have been turned away and been killed in a concentration camp.

    "...America's immigration laws placed quotas on the number of people allowed to enter the United States from other countries. In 1939, the quota allowed for 27,370 German citizens to immigrate to the United States. In 1938, more than 300,000 Germans-mostly Jewish refugees-had applied for U.S. visas (entry permits). A little over 20,000 applications were approved. Beyond the strict national quotas, the United States openly denied visas to any immigrant "likely to become a public charge." This ruling proved to be a serious problem for many Jewish refugees. Most had lost everything when the Nazis took power, and they might need government assistance after they immigrated to the United States.

    Shortly after she was appointed to the cabinet, Frances Perkins, President Roosevelt's secretary of labor, proposed an executive order on refugees and immigration. Perkins suggested that the State Department should give priority to immigrants seeking refuge from racial or religious persecution. The State Department objected to this order because it would antagonize relations with Germany and alienate jobless American citizens. FDR never issued the order, and State Department officials in Europe continued to reject many visa applications from Jewish refugees.

    In September 1935, Nazi Germany passed laws that deprived German Jews of their citizenship. Without citizenship, Jews were legally defenseless. Many lost their jobs and property. Hitler also targeted with violence and persecution countless thousands of gypsies, Catholics, homosexuals, and even the physically and mentally impaired. With so many Germans fleeing their homeland, the State Department temporarily eased immigration quotas. In 1936, the State Department approved visas for about 7,000 German refugees. By 1938, that number had increased to more than 20,000. But an opinion poll revealed that 82 percent of Americans still opposed admitting large numbers of Jewish refugees into the United States. Despite pleas by American human-rights organizations, the U.S. State Department refused to increase the German quota any further.
    European refugees

    In May 1939, only a few months before war began in Europe, a passenger ship called the St. Louis left Germany carrying nearly a thousand refugees, most of them Jews. Many of these people had already qualified for, but had not yet received, American visas. They arranged for temporary Cuban tourist visas that would let them wait outside of Germany for U.S. visas. When the St. Louis reached Havana, however, the Cuban government had changed its visa regulations. It refused to allow most of the refugees to land.

    Forced to leave Cuban waters, the St. Louis sailed up the Florida coast. The U.S. Coast Guard followed close behind to prevent any passengers from swimming ashore. The State Department refused to allow the refugees to land without special legislation by Congress or an executive order from the president. Efforts by American Jewish organizations to work out a compromise failed. The desperate passengers aboard the St. Louis sent President Roosevelt a telegram pleading their case. He never replied.

    Political realities may have influenced Roosevelt's decision to remain silent. Most Americans opposed entering the approaching European war. Many felt that America's best interest lay in avoiding foreign conflicts. Others were disillusioned by the U.S. intervention in World War I and wanted to avoid the loss of American lives. These views had strong support in Congress. In addition, Roosevelt knew that the United States was not yet prepared for war and was reluctant to antagonize the Nazi regime.

    Finally, the St. Louis returned to Europe and several nations granted asylum to the refugees. But when Hitler's troops marched through Europe, the Nazis eventually caught most of the St. Louis' ill-fated passengers and sent them to concentration camps.

    On the eve of World War II, a bill that would have admitted Jewish refugee children above the regular quota limits was introduced in Congress. President Roosevelt took no position on the bill, and it died in committee in the summer of 1939. Polls at the time indicated that two-thirds of Americans opposed taking in Jewish refugee children..."
    History Lesson 5: U.S. Immigration Policy and Hitler's Holocaust

  2. #182
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Depends... do they pay taxes and were they good contributing citizens? If so they do massive community service, pay fines and vote Republican. If not deport them that day with the kids and tell the kids that their parents are law breakers that just screwed up their lives...

    ...and your idea of a "couple of years" equalling 15 years differs from my take on what a couple of years means...
    I worded that poorly. I meant the hypothetical couple lives here a couple of years before they had their first kid, now their oldest kid is 13, thus they have lived and worked here illegally for about 15 years.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #183
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    You have mistaken my emotion. I have great compassion for those who struggle, no matter where they live.

    I have zero compassion for those who come here illegally, with no concern at all about the difficult situation they chose to put their families in, who demand I eat their choices and take care of them, and then scream about what might happen to their children they personally chose to put in a terrible situation.

    Perhaps that's the difference between us. I see reality, and you see something else.
    I don't think you see reality at all. You don't seem to realize they make the judgement that coming here is better for their family then forcing them to endure the conditions and hardships of where they lived in their country of origin.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #184
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    But any who happen to be lucky enough to find a way to sneak in, welcome to America?
    If, as I said, they came here with the full complicity of the federal government (as any who have arrived to date have done), have established themselves as de facto Americans, as most of the ones who came years ago have done, have children who are American citizens, then yes, I think we should re admit them legally from any American consulate in their home country.

    The blame game makes no sense. Our own elected representatives are as much to blame for illegal immigration as the illegals themselves are.

    First, we need to acknowledge that the government is the problem. Next, we need to secure the border. Then, we need to fine the (bleep!) out of anyone who hires illegals, Then, we need to make it possible for the people who have had the moxie to have crossed an international border and to have worked, paid taxes, and raised children while living in the shadows afraid of deportation to come out of the closet (so to speak) and live openly as Americans.

    But, as the same people who like the cheap labor of illegal aliens are the ones who have undue influence on the government "of the people", none of the above is likely to happen. My prediction is that illegal immigration will continue for the foreseeable future, and that the federal government, both parties, will do no more than leap and hoot and blame each other.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #185
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    My grandparents saved their lives by coming to this country and avoiding the Nazis and pogroms. They did not have to wait for years and pay tens of thousands of dollars for fees and lawyers to do so. If they came later they probably would have been turned away and been killed in a concentration camp.

    "...America's immigration laws placed quotas on the number of people allowed to enter the United States from other countries. In 1939, the quota allowed for 27,370 German citizens to immigrate to the United States. In 1938, more than 300,000 Germans-mostly Jewish refugees-had applied for U.S. visas (entry permits). A little over 20,000 applications were approved. Beyond the strict national quotas, the United States openly denied visas to any immigrant "likely to become a public charge." This ruling proved to be a serious problem for many Jewish refugees. Most had lost everything when the Nazis took power, and they might need government assistance after they immigrated to the United States.

    Shortly after she was appointed to the cabinet, Frances Perkins, President Roosevelt's secretary of labor, proposed an executive order on refugees and immigration. Perkins suggested that the State Department should give priority to immigrants seeking refuge from racial or religious persecution. The State Department objected to this order because it would antagonize relations with Germany and alienate jobless American citizens. FDR never issued the order, and State Department officials in Europe continued to reject many visa applications from Jewish refugees.

    In September 1935, Nazi Germany passed laws that deprived German Jews of their citizenship. Without citizenship, Jews were legally defenseless. Many lost their jobs and property. Hitler also targeted with violence and persecution countless thousands of gypsies, Catholics, homosexuals, and even the physically and mentally impaired. With so many Germans fleeing their homeland, the State Department temporarily eased immigration quotas. In 1936, the State Department approved visas for about 7,000 German refugees. By 1938, that number had increased to more than 20,000. But an opinion poll revealed that 82 percent of Americans still opposed admitting large numbers of Jewish refugees into the United States. Despite pleas by American human-rights organizations, the U.S. State Department refused to increase the German quota any further.
    European refugees

    In May 1939, only a few months before war began in Europe, a passenger ship called the St. Louis left Germany carrying nearly a thousand refugees, most of them Jews. Many of these people had already qualified for, but had not yet received, American visas. They arranged for temporary Cuban tourist visas that would let them wait outside of Germany for U.S. visas. When the St. Louis reached Havana, however, the Cuban government had changed its visa regulations. It refused to allow most of the refugees to land.

    Forced to leave Cuban waters, the St. Louis sailed up the Florida coast. The U.S. Coast Guard followed close behind to prevent any passengers from swimming ashore. The State Department refused to allow the refugees to land without special legislation by Congress or an executive order from the president. Efforts by American Jewish organizations to work out a compromise failed. The desperate passengers aboard the St. Louis sent President Roosevelt a telegram pleading their case. He never replied.

    Political realities may have influenced Roosevelt's decision to remain silent. Most Americans opposed entering the approaching European war. Many felt that America's best interest lay in avoiding foreign conflicts. Others were disillusioned by the U.S. intervention in World War I and wanted to avoid the loss of American lives. These views had strong support in Congress. In addition, Roosevelt knew that the United States was not yet prepared for war and was reluctant to antagonize the Nazi regime.

    Finally, the St. Louis returned to Europe and several nations granted asylum to the refugees. But when Hitler's troops marched through Europe, the Nazis eventually caught most of the St. Louis' ill-fated passengers and sent them to concentration camps.

    On the eve of World War II, a bill that would have admitted Jewish refugee children above the regular quota limits was introduced in Congress. President Roosevelt took no position on the bill, and it died in committee in the summer of 1939. Polls at the time indicated that two-thirds of Americans opposed taking in Jewish refugee children..."
    History Lesson 5: U.S. Immigration Policy and Hitler's Holocaust
    I honour your grandparents and those who struggled with them. But with all due respect, that's an entirely different circumstance to what is happening here. I could be wrong, but I believe, just like here in Canada, the US still takes in thousands of refugees from dangerous and/or war torn countries throughout the world as well as often tens of thousands from places on the planet that suffer catastrophic natural disasters, such as the Tsunami in the Indian Ocean/Indonesia and earthquakes in Pakistan and elsewhere. We also are taking in thousands displaced from the war in Syria over the past couple of years.

    These are far different from those seeking economic opportunity/relief from poverty in otherwise stable environments.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  6. #186
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I worded that poorly. I meant the hypothetical couple lives here a couple of years before they had their first kid, now their oldest kid is 13, thus they have lived and worked here illegally for about 15 years.
    I was just messin' with you...
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  7. #187
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If, as I said, they came here with the full complicity of the federal government (as any who have arrived to date have done), have established themselves as de facto Americans, as most of the ones who came years ago have done, have children who are American citizens, then yes, I think we should re admit them legally from any American consulate in their home country.

    The blame game makes no sense. Our own elected representatives are as much to blame for illegal immigration as the illegals themselves are.

    First, we need to acknowledge that the government is the problem. Next, we need to secure the border. Then, we need to fine the (bleep!) out of anyone who hires illegals, Then, we need to make it possible for the people who have had the moxie to have crossed an international border and to have worked, paid taxes, and raised children while living in the shadows afraid of deportation to come out of the closet (so to speak) and live openly as Americans.

    But, as the same people who like the cheap labor of illegal aliens are the ones who have undue influence on the government "of the people", none of the above is likely to happen. My prediction is that illegal immigration will continue for the foreseeable future, and that the federal government, both parties, will do no more than leap and hoot and blame each other.
    Can't argue with much of what you've said - but it still doesn't change my position on the question in the OP.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #188
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I don't think you see reality at all. You don't seem to realize they make the judgement that coming here is better for their family then forcing them to endure the conditions and hardships of where they lived in their country of origin.
    Really? Rather than staying where they were and doing something about their conditions, just as the founders of this country did, these people came here illegally, knowing that a some point the bill for their illegal activity could come true. It doesn't matter what judgment or irrational decisions they made. They made the choice and crying about something they knew would likely happens makes them less than heroic, and far less than those who equally suffered, but followed the law to get here.

    These people spit in the face of every immigrant who sacrificed everything to come here legally.

  9. #189
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Really? Rather than staying where they were and doing something about their conditions, just as the founders of this country did, these people came here illegally, knowing that a some point the bill for their illegal activity could come true. It doesn't matter what judgment or irrational decisions they made. They made the choice and crying about something they knew would likely happens makes them less than heroic, and far less than those who equally suffered, but followed the law to get here.

    These people spit in the face of every immigrant who sacrificed everything to come here legally.
    God what a dream world you live in. The founders of this country were almost all rich aristocratic white men and you are comparing them to people that live in abject poverty. Do you honestly think the solution for someone living in abject poverty in the middle of Honduras is to take on the local drug cartels? Mind you, these cartels are so brutal and violent they make ISIS look like the Peace Corps. I don't recall the British under King George beheading journalists and slaughtering students.

    Look, we obviously can't take on everyone facing hardship on earth. However, I don't blame them for trying to come here at all.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #190
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    Re: Deportation Question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There are not many ways. It is extremely difficult to immigrate to the United States, and lots of people who would like to do so. We can't possibly take them all on and continue as a modern nation.

    That's why we need real immigration reform that acknowledges that our government has been ignoring the problem for decades, that there are millions of people who would come here in a heartbeat if they could, and that our federal government needs to step up to the plate and put an end to illegal immigration once and for all. Neither separating families, nor deporting people who have lived their whole lives in the US, nor a blanket amnesty for all comers, nor a continuation of the current situation is in the best interests of the Unites States.

    If only we had a functioning Congress, perhaps such reform could be passed.
    Apparently there are quite a few ways as we average about 1 million immigrants receiving legal status every single year. In fact I am pretty sure that we take on more immigrants than pretty much any other country in the world.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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