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Thread: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

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    Educator Starbuck's Avatar
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    Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?


    I've seen a lot of images, such as the one above, floating around the internet over the past week. When I see this, I wonder if Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform are completely opposed.

    For example, if we allow ten illegal immigrants to gain permanent residency, do ten veterans lose their benefits?

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    That depends on whether you believe that our congress critters can "laser focus" on two separate issues at the same time.

    Some doubt that they can do much of anything, much less two anythings at once.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post

    I've seen a lot of images, such as the one above, floating around the internet over the past week. When I see this, I wonder if Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform are completely opposed.

    For example, if we allow ten illegal immigrants to gain permanent residency, do ten veterans lose their benefits?
    No, they're not, it's a stupid statement. Not to mention that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) should be viewed as assets to be developed, but are instead depicted by the right as a drain on society.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No, they're not, it's a stupid statement. Not to mention that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) should be viewed as assets to be developed, but are instead depicted by the right as a drain on society.
    So long as we are paying US citizen folks not to support themselves and their dependents by working while, at the same time insisting that non-citizen, uneducated, low skilled and non-English speaking folks can do just that, we need more than just immigration reform.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So long as we are paying US citizen folks not to support themselves and their dependents by working while, at the same time insisting that non-citizen, uneducated, low skilled and non-English speaking folks can do just that, we need more than just immigration reform.
    You do realize that Congress has ended unemployment benefits and that food stamps are being cut, correct? And that most families on welfare have at least one person that work and that you can't get unemployment forever, right? So how are we paying US citizens to not support themselves?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post

    I've seen a lot of images, such as the one above, floating around the internet over the past week. When I see this, I wonder if Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform are completely opposed.

    For example, if we allow ten illegal immigrants to gain permanent residency, do ten veterans lose their benefits?
    The two issues are totally unrelated, of course.
    But, people conflate unrelated issues all the time, so why not?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    You do realize that Congress has ended unemployment benefits and that food stamps are being cut, correct? And that most families on welfare have at least one person that work and that you can't get unemployment forever, right? So how are we paying US citizens to not support themselves?
    We have about 80 federal means tested "safety net" programs that are not (supposed to be) available to illegal aliens and fully expect them to make do without them by fully supporting themselves and their dependents by working (or relying entirely on private charity). Why is it suddenly cruel to expect that of US citizens as well?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The two issues are totally unrelated, of course.
    But, people conflate unrelated issues all the time, so why not?
    They are related because both rely on congressional funding. No two federal programs are unrelated if they both rely on getting a share of discretionary federal funding. That is like saying that your rent and grocery bills are unrelated when both depend on you to pay them - would an increase in one not have any affect on the other if you must now borrow just to make ends meet?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We have about 80 federal means tested "safety net" programs that are not (supposed to be) available to illegal aliens and fully expect them to make do without them by fully supporting themselves and their dependents by working (or relying entirely on private charity). Why is it suddenly cruel to expect that of US citizens as well?
    You say they are supporting themselves, but that ignores the fact that many of these people are working jobs, below minimum wage and are barely surviving, living multiple people to one room. Nearly a third of illegal immigrants live in poverty. (Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t Who You Think They Are | FiveThirtyEight)

    So they may be getting by as you say, but in reality they are eking our and existence.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Are Veterans Benefits and Immigration Reform mutually exclusive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    You say they are supporting themselves, but that ignores the fact that many of these people are working jobs, below minimum wage and are barely surviving, living multiple people to one room. Nearly a third of illegal immigrants live in poverty. (Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t Who You Think They Are | FiveThirtyEight)

    So they may be getting by as you say, but in reality they are eking our and existence.
    Yep and all without any nonsense of saying that there are jobs which are beneath them. I am so tired of hearing that illegal labor does not take "valuable" jobs while also hearing that we need ever more "safety net" spending. Are those now getting "safety net" assistance not supposed to have to eke out a living too? Why, exactly, are they not working the jobs "needed to be filled" but only by illegal labor?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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