View Poll Results: Is assasination ever the right thing to do

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  • In some cases assasination is right

    33 82.50%
  • assasination is never right EVER

    7 17.50%
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Thread: Is assasination ever called for

  1. #101
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    Something I'm not entirely clear on myself is, how responsible is Hitler personally for the events that led to WWII and the Holocaust? Did he simply ride a tidal wave of historical events? Or did he shape the thoughts of the time so specifically that those events never would have happened had he not lived?
    I've wondered the same myself. My step-father was a German Jew whose parents got out of Germany just three months before the borders were closed. I call him my step-father, but really, he was my father, in that he was the one who taught me how to be a man. Anyway, looking at his family tree is depressing, as pretty much everyone else in his family ended up at Bergen-Belsen, and thence presumably to Auschwitz or one of the death camps. So, I also became very interested in this topic. I have a few thoughts--though I make no representation that these are the full and final answers.

    It's certainly the case that antisemitism was widespread and deep in Germany prior to the nazis coming to power. Antisemitism there goes all the way back to the first crusade, and perhaps even longer. So there's that element to consider.

    Additionally, it should be pointed out that the German people were both confused and oppressed following on their defeat in World War I. Up until roughly 6 weeks before the total surrender of Germany, the news reports in Germany were all positive, portraying to the people that Germany was winning stunning victories and driving back the "invading allies." Reparations imposed by the treaty of Versailles were unfair, and failed to recognize that all the participants in World War I had contributed to both the start of the war, as well as its costly and horrific nature.

    To understand how this came to be perceived, put yourself in the shoes of a German citizen of the day. You think Germany is winning the war. Everything is going well. You perceive your country as the defender against aggressive English, French, and American forces, who started this costly war to gain territory and destroy Germany. But the industriousness, the righteousness, and the honorable fighting spirit of the German people are winning against the cowardly and vicious allies. It hasn't been easy; everyone has had to shoulder part of the burden, and so many brave young German men have died defending the Fatherland. Nevertheless, Germany is winning.

    But then, just when final victory seems within grasp, those allies are at the German borders, and invasion is immanent. News spreads that the lines have collapsed, supplies are non-existent, and there is now no hope but surrender. The German people were never told that they had been deceived during the final year of the war, that reports had been rosier than the situation itself (although it is true that when the allies turned the tide, they gained success after success very quickly). The natural thought was that somehow, they had been betrayed.

    And then came the Weimar republic. Germans who had been wealthy were reduced to extreme poverty almost overnight. People starved. Children ran away and disappeared, as did husbands, wives, brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers. Crime was rampant. Unemployment was sky-high (near 50% at one point). The German people suffered terribly--worse than the Americans did during the Great Depression.

    The Nazis sold the fiction that the Jews and the socialists had done the betraying from within, in order to subjugate and destroy the German people. Given how deep antisemitism ran within German culture, it was an easy sell. The man who did the selling was not Hitler, but Joseph Goebbels. My view is that, if you really want to find the heart of evil in the Third Reich, it wasn't Hitler, but rather, Goebbels. His diaries make an interesting read--though they also make me sick to my stomach and the hairs on my arms stand on end. He was aware there was nothing "subhuman" or innately harmful about the Jews. He was interested in seeing how many people could be killed with a lie. Most people who want bad things don't want to want them (I may steal a piece of jewelry because I really want the money, but at the same time, I may also desire not to have those desires). There was none of that in Goebbels. He wanted to be evil, knowing full well what that means.

    By contrast, Hitler was delusional. He was nasty and stupid, surely, but he also genuinely believed that the Jews were out to destroy Germany, and they therefore had to be extinguished. This doesn't excuse his actions at all, since it should have been obvious he was wrong. But his character is a little more comprehensible than that of Goebbels, who was so utterly evil and unlike most other individuals as to be not worthy of being called human in my opinion. I think he had a big gaping chasm where most people have a soul.

    Without the Nazis, antisemitism would likely have remained diffuse and unfocussed. The holocaust was not inevitable; the Nazis caused it.

  2. #102
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Methamphetamine is a hell of a drug.
    From what I recall, he was reported to have been heavily dependent on opiates. Drugs don't get much better than that, as far as the physical and psychological effects.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  3. #103
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    You don't thinka psychopath in charge of a country should be assassinated?
    I wonder how long it will take the FBI to shut down this forum. If it happens, you can all thank this noob moron trying to dishonestly convince people that Obama should be assassinated. The best part is that he's compared Obama to Hitler over and over again. He's argued that if Hitler had been assassinated earlier, things would have turned out better. Then, he turns around and says he's not trying to convince people that assassinating Obama is what he's getting at. You must think people at DP are actually stupid enough to not see through your blatantly ridiculous threads and where you're trying to lead people.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-22-14 at 04:34 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #104
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Assassinating the head of a democracy is pointless and totally ineffective. The power is in the infrastructure below the leader.

  5. #105
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I wonder how long it will take the FBI to shut down this forum. If it happens, you can all thank this noob moron trying to dishonestly convince people that Obama should be assassinated. The best part is that he's compared Obama to Hitler over and over again. He's argued that if Hitler had been assassinated earlier, things would have turned out better. Then, he turns around and says he's not trying to convince people that assassinating Obama is what he's getting at. You must think people at DP are actually stupid enough to not see through your blatantly ridiculous threads and where you're trying to lead people.
    can you point to the specific post in here that the OP has tried to convince anyone that Obama should be assassinated?

    i've read the whole thread and posted my 2 pennies worth... and i'm not seeing what you are seeing.

  6. #106
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    It's also worth noting that Hitler was almost perpetually high as a freaking kite on mind altering medications before the war's end as well.

    He was taking a number of pain killing meds for the after effects of the numerous assassination attempts he survived. He was also mixing them with sleep aids and other substances meant to either ease his anxiety or treat his other numerous health problems (he had a famously irritable stomach, for instance, and was always looking for new ways to 'cure' his symptoms).

    Combined with the - frankly, understandable - nervous break down he had when it became clear that his regime was doomed, the drugs basically turned him into a raving mad man.
    sounds like FDR and his medications



  7. #107
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I wonder how long it will take the FBI to shut down this forum. If it happens, you can all thank this noob moron trying to dishonestly convince people that Obama should be assassinated. The best part is that he's compared Obama to Hitler over and over again. He's argued that if Hitler had been assassinated earlier, things would have turned out better. Then, he turns around and says he's not trying to convince people that assassinating Obama is what he's getting at. You must think people at DP are actually stupid enough to not see through your blatantly ridiculous threads and where you're trying to lead people.
    You have a vivid and delusional imagination

  8. #108
    Phonetic Mnemonic
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    From what I recall, he was reported to have been heavily dependent on opiates. Drugs don't get much better than that, as far as the physical and psychological effects.
    Yet he never drank alcohol*. In photo ops where everyone else was drinking beer he'd be drinking apple juice.

    *- Don't know if never as in "never ever", but for the most part he was pretty much a tea-totaler (sp?).
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #109
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    Hitler has the charisma and the evil to make the worst of Germany bubble to the surfaces. IMO if he had been stopped in his rise to power we would have had a different and better world
    WWII opened up an incredible era of innovation and change in this world during a century that was already seeing huge advances in science and technology, for all its' suffering, I don't think we'd have a better world without it.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

  10. #110
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    Re: Is assasination ever called for

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    WWII opened up an incredible era of innovation and change in this world during a century that was already seeing huge advances in science and technology, for all its' suffering, I don't think we'd have a better world without it.
    I don't believe so either. Some of the greatest advances are made as a result of stress, not in times of ease. When things are too sedate, complacency ensues. Who knows why some things happen as they do? There are unpredictable events, and people who don't act as we deem they should. Without evil, there would be no good. Without our Hitlers, there could be no Ghandis. It's a world of paradox and opposites.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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