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Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

Is Obama breaking the law?

  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    Votes: 36 48.6%
  • No, perfectly legal

    Votes: 13 17.6%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    Votes: 13 17.6%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • Dont care

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • Go Fish

    Votes: 6 8.1%

  • Total voters
    74
Re: Obama's Executive Order

United States Presidents issue executive orders to help officers and agencies of the executive branch manage the operations within the federal government itself. Executive orders have the full force of law[1] when they take authority from a power granted directly to the Executive by the Constitution, or are made in pursuance of certain Acts of Congress that explicitly delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation). Like both legislative statutes and regulations promulgated by government agencies, executive orders are subject to judicial review, and may be struck down if deemed by the courts to be unsupported by statute or the Constitution. Major policy initiatives usually require approval by the legislative branch, but executive orders have significant influence over the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree laws will be enforced, dealing with emergencies, waging war, and in general fine policy choices in the implementation of broad statutes.

Executive order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the most famous executive order...Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

No, it won't.

He cannot, and is not, handing out Green Cards to 4 million people. He isn't giving them "amnesty" or refugee status. (He also can't give them drivers' licenses.) He's letting them apply for work permits, and deferring deportation until around 2017.

That's nice. But unless that was specified in the law(s) in question, it's irrelevant.

The Constitution didn't carve out any exceptions for "humanitarian relief" or "foreign policy events." And he isn't naturalizing anyone. Please get the facts straight.

It also means that you don't actually have a basis for this claim.

Nothing in the laws specified a limit to the President's ability to temporarily defer deportations. If there is, then no one has actually cited it yet. If Congress gave the President too much power, the only possible recourse is the courts, who haven't ruled on this yet. In addition, Congress is well within its powers to pass a law to establish such limits -- and most certainly sees this coming. They can even still act. And yet, they have not yet passed any such laws.

I'm not sure this is the best policy, but so far I'm not seeing a valid legal argument against it.


Yes.....that's what he did.

Yes it is nice, as it will lead to one of the arguments against.

Congress gave power to the office of Presidency over Humanitarian relief with any emergency and the same with Foreign Policy.

Yes it already pointed out that it is a Constitutional argument. Though do try and keep up with what News Sources are saying along with the Constitutional Attorneys.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

While Obama's attorney may have a good point, I think the Repubs may take the advice of their own attorneys, don'tcha think? Wouldn't you? It's strange that Obama's attorney would use his time to mention Congress could overwrite his law over deportations and withhold funds. I'm absolutely certain that McConnell and Boehner already knew that, since neither are rookies in DC, so why would he mention it? What point was he making about not taking it to court? :werd:

Because McConnell is not panicking and knows any legislation they do with Immigration. Will force BO to use that pen either way.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

How much does it cost the govt to not deport someone?

How much does it cost to run a background check by the Fed? Oh and how long does it take to complete that background check?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

It's really very simple. We have immigration laws. People have been breaking those laws for decades. Obama now wants to give them all a pardon and allow anyone to come in without the threat of deportation even though the law says otherwise. Yeah.... that's illegal.

in reality, Obama clearly and explicitly stated that his actions will only effect those who have been here for at least five years and that those who came in less than 5 years ago (or who will come in the future) are not affected by this. He just as clearly stated that it only applies to those who have family members who are citizens, and that the relief is only temporary (and not permanent, like a pardon).

IOW, everything you just said was untrue
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Either we are dedicated to living under the authority of our Constitution and the rule of law, or we can no longer seriously call this a free country.

Please identify the action that Obama has ordered the govt to take and the law that is being broken by this action
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Too bad Obama didn't pull this trigger before the election when GOPs were lying about and politicizing Ebola and ISIL.

So, NIMBY, looks like you are slipping. Your posts are usually completely full of one-liners that merit no response, but you let one into this post.

Obama would rightfully disagree with you, here. If he had done this before the election, his Party would have received a royal beat-down instead of a mild shellacking.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I have no idea if he's breaking the law or not. According to him, until last night, he was breaking the law. I've seen politicians on both sides say he is breaking the law. I've seen Democratic politicians say he isn't breaking the law.

Unless a poster is a Constitutional scholar or attorney, none of us know either.

I think SCOTUS will have to weigh in on this one.

If you want to know what some attorneys who are Constitutional scholars think, you can read this:

http://www.nilc.org/document.html?id=754

General authority for defered action exists under Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) § 103(a), 8 U.S.C. § 103(a), which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to enforce the immigration laws. Though no statutes oregulations delineate defered action in specific terms, the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that decisions to initate or terminate enforcement procedings fall squarely within the authority of the Executive. In the immigration context, the Executive Branch has exercised its general enforcement authority to grant defered action since at least 1971. Federal courts have acknowledged the existence of this executive power at least as far back as the mid–1970s.5

Parole–in–place refers to a form of parole granted by the Executive Branch under
the authority of INA § 212(d)(5), 8 U.S.C. § 182(d)(5).
Under this provision, the Atorney
General “may . . in his discretion parole into the United States temporarily under such
conditons as he may prescribe only on a case–by–case basis for urgent humanitarian
reasons or significant public benefit any alien aplying for admision to the United
States.”7 Parole permits a noncitzen to remain lawfuly in the United States, although
parole does not constiute an “admision” under the INA. Individuals who have ben
paroled are eligible for work authorization

Defered enforced departure, often refered to as DED, is a form of prosecutorial
discretion that is closely related to defered action. Almost every Administration since
President Dwight D. Eisenhower has granted DED or the analogous “Extended Voluntary
Departure” to at least one group of noncitzens.15 As with defered action, executive
authority to grant defered enforced departure and extended voluntary departure exists
under the general authority to enforce the immigration laws as set out in INA § 103(a), 8
U.S.C. § 103(a)
.1
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

How much does it cost to run a background check by the Fed? Oh and how long does it take to complete that background check?

So they'll defund background checks?

GREAT!!!

Obama can then claim that the GOP is endangering the public by denying the govt the ability to determine which immigrants pose a threat to americans
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

That was the past, this is the present.

So what are you talking about here? The past? The present? Or..."ever".
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I'm trying to quit smoking and not doing well, so don't **** with me!

Having been there...done that...I feel your pain.

You know, that would make a great sig-line for you.
 
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Re: Obama's Executive Order

That's nice to know. But I'm curious about the evolution on Obama's own opinion on it. He said for years that it isn't "perfectly legal".

Is this your opinion as a Constitutional scholar? And why do you know more about the Constitution than the guy who taught Constitutional law did for so long?
He said he didn't have the power to grant amnesty which is quite correct. What he spoke about last night was only a temporary measure, it does not grant amnesty.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

He said he didn't have the power to grant amnesty which is quite correct. What he spoke about last night was only a temporary measure, it does not grant amnesty.

I posted this video earlier in this thread...maybe you didn't see it. You would do well for yourself to watch it.





Nowhere does he mention "amnesty"...but he does say this: "With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case."

And yet...that's exactly what he did last night.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I posted this video earlier in this thread...maybe you didn't see it. You would do well for yourself to watch it.





Nowhere does he mention "amnesty"...but he does say this: "With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case."

And yet...that's exactly what he did last night.


Yes, that is what he did.....

...because he can just suspend deportations.

BTW, he is not issuing an Executive Order for this.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

So they'll defund background checks?

GREAT!!!

Obama can then claim that the GOP is endangering the public by denying the govt the ability to determine which immigrants pose a threat to americans




Sure ignore the that cost that BO is adding to the Government......including the manhours.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Please identify the action that Obama has ordered the govt to take and the law that is being broken by this action

I think changing the rule regarding who is eligible for work permits is re-writing the law.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I think changing the rule regarding who is eligible for work permits is re-writing the law.

It's not. The law allows the president to do that.

Specifically, INA § 212(d)(5) and 8 U.S.C. § 182(d)(5)
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Please identify the action that Obama has ordered the govt to take and the law that is being broken by this action

BO's executive amnesty violates the laws Congress has passed in order to create and implement laws Congress has refused to pass. BO is providing an estimated 5 million illegal immigrants with social security numbers, photo IDs and work permits—allowing them to now take jobs directly from struggling Americans.

Meaning they can access almost all U.S. welfare programs and will with State Welfare Programs too.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Yes, that is what he did.....

...because he can just suspend deportations.

So...was he correct back then? Or is he correct now? Or does it just depend on what is politically advantageous at the time?

You know how he's a "the ends justify the means" kind of guy.

BTW, he is not issuing an Executive Order for this.

I know you like to be "picky, picky", but there really isn't much difference between an "executive order" and an "executive memo".
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Some things he did seem within his authority. I'm not clear on one particular point. If they are undocumented, how can they prove they have been here 5 years?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

BO's executive amnesty violates the laws Congress has passed in order to create and implement laws Congress has refused to pass. BO is providing an estimated 5 million illegal immigrants with social security numbers, photo IDs and work permits—allowing them to now take jobs directly from struggling Americans.

Meaning they can access almost all U.S. welfare programs and will with State Welfare Programs too.

The law allows him to do that

http://www.nilc.org/document.html?id=75

And this is not amnesty. He is merely deferring deportations and granting some immgrants the legal right to remain in the US temporarily. When I asked for something he is doing that is illegal, I meant "something he is *actually* doing" and not "some imaginary fiction some wingnut on the right is blathering about"
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

He said he didn't have the power to grant amnesty which is quite correct. What he spoke about last night was only a temporary measure, it does not grant amnesty.

I suppose we'll have to wait for the fine print, but there has been no indication of what "temporary" means. The courts are usually not shy about ruling on issues where obvious intent is attempted to be hidden by cute phrases and words.

For example, the argument the President included in his remarks suggested that it is unreasonable to execute a mass deportation of millions of illegal aliens at one time. However, this word "temporary" suggests there will be a point in time in the future when the "waiver" will expire. Are there to be mass deportations then?

While the vagueness may be cleared up in the actual hard copy EO, as it stands right now, the President has indeed granted a form of amnesty, since there is nothing other than the word "temporary" standing between now, and eternity.
 
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Re: Obama's Executive Order

So...was he correct back then? Or is he correct now? Or does it just depend on what is politically advantageous at the time?

He was wrong then, and if I had to guess I'd say that he knew it but being a politician he has not hesitations about lying in order to attack his opponent on the campaign trail.

I know you like to be "picky, picky", but there really isn't much difference between an "executive order" and an "executive memo".

Yes, I am picky when it comes to facts. If only you would be too.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Some things he did seem within his authority. I'm not clear on one particular point. If they are undocumented, how can they prove they have been here 5 years?

One of my questions as well, and I think it works like this: "I has been here five years."
 
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