• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

Is Obama breaking the law?

  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    Votes: 36 48.6%

  • No, perfectly legal

    Votes: 13 17.6%

  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    Votes: 13 17.6%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 3 4.1%

  • Dont care

    Votes: 3 4.1%

  • Go Fish

    Votes: 6 8.1%
  • Total voters
    74
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Dave Mittner said:
Practically speaking granting amnesty, which the Constitution clearly empowers the POTUS to perform, wouldn't accomplish anything. People who are here illegally are perpetually breaking the law. Yeah, the POTUS could say "you're pardoned for your past crimes", but they'd be guilty of the same crime the following day. The only way amnesty would have any lasting effect is if it also included legalizing documentation, but POTUS does not have the authority to grant that.

So that leaves Obama doing what every leader of law enforcement ends up doing: prioritizing where enforcement assets concentrate their work. Obama saying "felons, not families" is absolutely no different than any police chief or sheriff saying "murderers, not jay-walkers". It's discretion that all law enforcement leadership has regardless of what laws have been written. They need that discretion to function day-to-day, in a world of limited money and assets. Simple prioritization. It's not a strange concept. We each exercise the same thing on a regular basis. Companies exercise it. It's everywhere.

P.S. Caveat: POTUS doesn't have explicit Constitutional authority to grant legalizing papers, but he is in charge of the departments that do per the Constitution and previously passed Congressional laws. That might give him the indirect authority to grant them. I haven't researched into it enough to know.
Click to expand...

Here's the research


http://www.nilc.org/document.html?id=754

General authority for defered action exists under Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) § 103(a), 8 U.S.C. § 103(a), which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to enforce the immigration laws. Though no statutes oregulations delineate defered action in specific terms, the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that decisions to initate or terminate enforcement procedings fall squarely within the authority of the Executive. In the immigration context, the Executive Branch has exercised its general enforcement authority to grant defered action since at least 1971. Federal courts have acknowledged the existence of this executive power at least as far back as the mid–1970s.5
Click to expand...

Parole–in–place refers to a form of parole granted by the Executive Branch under
the authority of INA § 212(d)(5), 8 U.S.C. § 182(d)(5). Under this provision, the Atorney
General “may . . in his discretion parole into the United States temporarily under such
conditons as he may prescribe only on a case–by–case basis for urgent humanitarian
reasons or significant public benefit any alien aplying for admision to the United
States.”7 Parole permits a noncitzen to remain lawfuly in the United States, although
parole does not constiute an “admision” under the INA. Individuals who have ben
paroled are eligible for work authorization
Click to expand...

Defered enforced departure, often refered to as DED, is a form of prosecutorial
discretion that is closely related to defered action. Almost every Administration since
President Dwight D. Eisenhower has granted DED or the analogous “Extended Voluntary
Departure” to at least one group of noncitzens.15 As with defered action, executive
authority to grant defered enforced departure and extended voluntary departure exists
under the general authority to enforce the immigration laws as set out in INA § 103(a), 8
U.S.C. § 103(a).1
Click to expand...

As this shows, Congress has given POTUS the authority to grant undocumented residents the right to remain in the country and to work.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

TheDemSocialist said:
What he is doing is not only perfectly legal its doing the same exact thing which many many presidents have done.
Click to expand...



Congressman Peter King Republican.....just said the House can write up a letter of disapproval and Censure. He would rather go that route than Going with the I- Word. As they don't want to do that.

He says Congress has their oath to the Constitution and that's what the WH has to understand.

Gingrich also mentioned the issue of BO's patience. Just because BO is out of patience with Congress doesn't mean that Supercedes the Constitution.
 
Last edited:
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I just saw the president's speech and think he is desperate or maybe just trying to pitch executive action by his salesmanship use of apple pie, Americana statements and even quoting scripture.

Do you attend church with your illegal alien neighbors? Obama seems to think so.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

sangha said:
Here's the research


http://www.nilc.org/document.html?id=754







As this shows, Congress has given POTUS the authority to grant undocumented residents the right to remain in the country and to work.
Click to expand...

None of those apply, they are for individual cases. They do not authorize the Executive to create a new class of subscribed undeportables.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064004077 said:
I just saw the president's speech and think he is desperate or maybe just trying to pitch executive action by his salesmanship use of apple pie, Americana statements and even quoting scripture.

Do you attend church with your illegal alien neighbors? Obama seems to think so.
Click to expand...

The church in my neighborhood brings in a lot of young people from Ireland. I suppose it is possible they are illegals. I never asked them to see their papers when they stop by.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

clownboy said:
None of those apply, they are for individual cases. They do not authorize the Executive to create a new class of subscribed undeportables.
Click to expand...

Toobin.....another of the lefts own attorney's. Just got done stating it......that Congress can write up a law that overwrites BO's law over deportations. Plus not fund parts of the government related to this issue.

He don't think anything can go to the courts over this. But said it doesn't need to. That Congress has several options open to them.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

MMC said:
Toobin.....another of the lefts own attorney's. Just got done stating it......that Congress can write up a law that overwrites BO's law over deportations. Plus not fund parts of the government related to this issue.

He don't think anything can go to the courts over this. But said it doesn't need to. That Congress has several options open to them.
Click to expand...

Time for the republicans to show a little strength and do it then.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

MMC said:
Congressman Peter King Republican.....just said the House can write up a letter of disapproval and Censure. He would rather go that route than Going with the I- Word. As they don't want to do that.
Click to expand...
:lamo Let them do that then. Or is it gonna be like the great Bohner lawsuit?
Lets see how far this one gets. I suspect they will be 0-2 with their petty threats.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

sawdust said:
My understanding is that Reagan and Bush worked with congress to correct flaws which adversely affected families that were granted amnesty by congress in 1986. Obama has never worked with congress. He's a terrible president.
Click to expand...

When has this Congress ever worked with the President?
This congress makes the do-nothing congress of Truman's time look like mighty successful .
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

NIMBY said:
When has this Congress ever worked with the President?
This congress makes the do-nothing congress of Truman's time look like mighty successful .
Click to expand...

Well, you have a democrat senate to blame for that. The house has put forward over a hundred bills that never reached the floor of the senate because the democrat leadership wanted it that way.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

The only congressional intent Congress has is to NOT write a law.
And to now use this Obama fix to not do anything for the next two years, as with the last two.
Sounds like Queen Boehner to me .
sangha said:
how is taking actions that laws passed by congress allow him to take demonstrate a "defiance of congressional intent"?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

NIMBY said:
The only congressional intent Congress has is to NOT write a law.
And to now use this Obama fix to not do anything for the next two years, as with the last two.
Sounds like Queen Boehner to me .
Click to expand...

The republican house wrote quite a few laws. The democrat senate refused to even hear them. You seem to be a tad confused as to how the legislative process works. Put down the dem phone bank script and maybe study up a bit.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

APACHERAT said:
The Congressional branch of government writes the laws.

The executive branch of government enforces the laws passed by Congress.

The liberal judicial activist judges legislate from the bench.
Click to expand...

Guess what? The executive branch gets to administer enforcement. This means they get to prioritize limited resources, using their judgment to decide how much effort should be expended on various aspects of various laws.

BTW... there a plenty of Conservative activist judges, including a few on the SCOTUS.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

upsideguy said:
Guess what? The executive branch gets to administer enforcement. This means they get to prioritize limited resources, using their judgment to decide how much effort should be expended on various aspects of various laws.

BTW... there a plenty of Conservative activist judges, including a few on the SCOTUS.
Click to expand...

Did any of them laugh about legislating on the bench ?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

MMC said:
while presidents unquestionably have the power to exercise immigration enforcement discretion in order to further foreign policy or humanitarian goals, what they do not have the power to do is functionally rewrite U.S. immigration law, which is exactly what Obama's impending executive action on immigration would do.
Click to expand...
No, it won't.

He cannot, and is not, handing out Green Cards to 4 million people. He isn't giving them "amnesty" or refugee status. (He also can't give them drivers' licenses.) He's letting them apply for work permits, and deferring deportation until around 2017.


The past incidents listed above were all in response to specific humanitarian crises or foreign policy events. They all were narrowly tailored to help specific subsets of immigrants.....
Click to expand...
That's nice. But unless that was specified in the law(s) in question, it's irrelevant.


This is not narrow humanitarian relief[/B]. This is a flagrant attempt to get around Congress's exclusive Article I power "to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."
Click to expand...

The Constitution didn't carve out any exceptions for "humanitarian relief" or "foreign policy events." And he isn't naturalizing anyone. Please get the facts straight.


Because no president has abused this power on this scale before, there is no case law that details the scope of a president's prosecutorial discretion. But just because the case law isn't there yet, doesn't mean there are no limits to Obama's power.....
Click to expand...
It also means that you don't actually have a basis for this claim.

Nothing in the laws specified a limit to the President's ability to temporarily defer deportations. If there is, then no one has actually cited it yet. If Congress gave the President too much power, the only possible recourse is the courts, who haven't ruled on this yet. In addition, Congress is well within its powers to pass a law to establish such limits -- and most certainly sees this coming. They can even still act. And yet, they have not yet passed any such laws.

I'm not sure this is the best policy, but so far I'm not seeing a valid legal argument against it.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

TheDemSocialist said:
What he is doing is not only perfectly legal its doing the same exact thing which many many presidents have done.
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself...........oh wait, I'm too late.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Declan said:
The church in my neighborhood brings in a lot of young people from Ireland. I suppose it is possible they are illegals. I never asked them to see their papers when they stop by.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Obama wasn't trying to sell the people who sent him a very strong message during the recent election cycle executive orders about illegal Irish immigrants.

You?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064004233 said:
I'm pretty sure Obama wasn't trying to sell the people who sent him a very strong message during the recent election cycle executive orders about illegal Irish immigrants.

You?
Click to expand...

Who knows what lies in the hearts of men? An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant unless we want to throw out parts of teh COnstitution and a great many non-discrimination laws.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

MMC said:
Toobin.....another of the lefts own attorney's. Just got done stating it......that Congress can write up a law that overwrites BO's law over deportations. Plus not fund parts of the government related to this issue.

He don't think anything can go to the courts over this. But said it doesn't need to. That Congress has several options open to them.
Click to expand...

While Obama's attorney may have a good point, I think the Repubs may take the advice of their own attorneys, don'tcha think? Wouldn't you? It's strange that Obama's attorney would use his time to mention Congress could overwrite his law over deportations and withhold funds. I'm absolutely certain that McConnell and Boehner already knew that, since neither are rookies in DC, so why would he mention it? What point was he making about not taking it to court? :werd:
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Declan said:
Who knows what lies in the hearts of men? An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant unless we want to throw out parts of teh COnstitution and a great many non-discrimination laws.
Click to expand...

I love it when partisans play the non-partisan role to try to gain an edge in a debate they're losing.

How many Irish immigrants cross the southern border illegally? Unless crossing the border from the east and west coasts have been a problem I'm not aware of. I'm also pretty sure the northern US border hasn't been a hotly debated issue either.

That leaves the southern US border. Pretty sure the Irish would be fairly easy to spot crossing into Texas or Arizona illegally.

See any Irish people in these crowds?

illegal_alien_border.jpg

mass-border-crossing.jpg
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Mycroft said:
So...instead of spouting your own spin...which is the same as Obama's spin...you are going to quote someone else's spin...which is the same as Obama's spin?
Click to expand...
The man that wrote that is a conservative...

Less spinning...more adherence to law.
Click to expand...
Have fun with the hack show!
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

clownboy said:
The republican house wrote quite a few laws. The democrat senate refused to even hear them. You seem to be a tad confused as to how the legislative process works. Put down the dem phone bank script and maybe study up a bit.
Click to expand...

The Democratic Senate refused to hear laws passed by the House because they were not serious laws. Serious legislation from the House would have attached Dem votes in the House at the expense of votes of the extreme cons. BTW, educated people know its the Democratic Party.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

polgara said:
Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Is it being televised after all? I had read that none of the networks are carrying it. :confused:
Click to expand...

I don't know, I did what I always do. I don't watch any president's speeches. I wait until I can pull up a summation. Much quicker and I skip the after speech pundits telling me what the president said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom