View Poll Results: Is Obama breaking the law?

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  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    45 46.88%
  • No, perfectly legal

    22 22.92%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    17 17.71%
  • Not sure

    3 3.13%
  • Dont care

    3 3.13%
  • Go Fish

    6 6.25%
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Thread: Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

  1. #401
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    He doesn't have the authority to legislate.

    Good thing he hasn't legislated.
    I think that is not as clear as some on both sides want to believe. The waters on this issue have long ago been muddied by one president after another - and that includes both parties when they hold the White House. And the reaction among members of Congress is often NOT based on a strict reading of the constitution but what is politically expedient or popular at the time.

    Things have changed and have been in constant change for a long time. And now it seems that everybody who occupies the White House does it and everyone else stands by and lets it happen - sometimes even facilitating and encouraging it as the only way to get things done given the normal logjam that has become Congress. In a way it reminds me of the history of prostitution in the Old West. There used to be a term for a woman who would perform certain actions that others were leary of - she was called A French whore. And today it is so run of them mill and accepted as normal that not a single woman in that profession would argue the point.

    I think that is what has happened during the rise of the imperial presidency going back to the last century.
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    For six years the GOP has stuck up its middle finger to the President and now he finally gives it back to them. My only question is why it took so long?
    If you didnt like it, you should have won some elections.

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I never said I support the speech or the decision. I was merely making an observation and then asking a question.

    I do have serious questions about an imperial presidency and any president taking authority upon himself that is questionable. Sadly, for too many, those questions seem to come and go as they occupy and vacate the White House.

    When I taught US History for many years we had a textbook with a chapter entitled THE FAILURE OF THE POLITICIANS. It was about the lead up to the Civil War. I think about that and have thought about that over the last ten years.

    There are no virgins in this whore house no matter how many want to pretend otherwise.
    Yet here you are cheering imperialism.

  4. #404
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    If you didnt like it, you should have won some elections.
    I do not follow that comment. Both parties have won lost of elections to different offices.
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  5. #405
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Yet here you are cheering imperialism.
    I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you please quote me where I was cheering imperialism?
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I want to learn more about it and hear some opinions from Constitutional experts before I weigh in on one side or the other. My comment was about the politics of it all - not the constitutional issues.

    This is quite interesting

    Obama, immigration, and the rule of law [updated with additional material on precedents for Obama's action] - The Washington Post
    That's a great article by the The Volokh Conspiracy which was a libertarian/consevative before it moved to the Washington Post.


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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I didn't ignore any legal scholars opinions. I have dismissed them because their opinions lack any legal reasoning. Instead, they argue irrelevancies such as "it's a bad policy" or "other presidents worked with congress" etc, none of which have nothing to do with the legality of Obama's actions.

    But if you know of a legal scholar who has made a legal argument as to why the president's actions are illegal, feel free to post them.
    It's at least good for a laugh to see you pretend, after a few minutes of online research, to understand the issues of constitutional law this involves well enough to make the call. I doubt you care about them anyway, any more than President Pinocchio does. The only thing about the Constitution that interests him is how best to violate it, while acting like he's respecting it.

  8. #408
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I think that is not as clear as some on both sides want to believe. The waters on this issue have long ago been muddied by one president after another - and that includes both parties when they hold the White House. And the reaction among members of Congress is often NOT based on a strict reading of the constitution but what is politically expedient or popular at the time.

    Things have changed and have been in constant change for a long time. And now it seems that everybody who occupies the White House does it and everyone else stands by and lets it happen - sometimes even facilitating and encouraging it as the only way to get things done given the normal logjam that has become Congress. In a way it reminds me of the history of prostitution in the Old West. There used to be a term for a woman who would perform certain actions that others were leary of - she was called A French whore. And today it is so run of them mill and accepted as normal that not a single woman in that profession would argue the point.

    I think that is what has happened during the rise of the imperial presidency going back to the last century.
    I'm not sure what you've taken issue with, but if it's my claim that he hasn't legislated, then can you show me the section of the US Code that has changed?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #409
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm not sure what you've taken issue with, but if it's my claim that he hasn't legislated, then can you show me the section of the US Code that has changed?
    I am not sure either. My feelings are more unease about the whole blurred lines os what is legislating and what is not due to executive orders, war powers and other things. I have little doubt that by a standard of the early 1800's the President could not do these things. But today - after one president after another pushing the envelope - its rather a done deal by this point.

    I really do not know how you turn the clock back - or even if it is desirable to do so. This might be one area where the Constitution is simply badly out of date with reality and normal practice.
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  10. #410
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    It's at least good for a laugh to see you pretend, after a few minutes of online research, to understand the issues of constitutional law this involves well enough to make the call. I doubt you care about them anyway, any more than President Pinocchio does. The only thing about the Constitution that interests him is how best to violate it, while acting like he's respecting it.
    If there is a constitional issue you think I should consider, then post it.

    Note: I have already reviewed the "Obama is a dictator who is legislating extra-constitutionally and should be impeached" argument you posted earlier and rejected it due to it's lack of any legal reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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