View Poll Results: Is Obama breaking the law?

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  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    45 46.88%
  • No, perfectly legal

    22 22.92%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    17 17.71%
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    3 3.13%
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Thread: Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

  1. #381
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Wont this increase unemployment? Instead of 9 million legal workers looking for employment, you will have 14 million workers looking for employment. Excepting the illegals who are already illegally employed, who will keep their illegal jobs (though now they have to pay taxes and get paid minimum wage, so they might get fired)

    Employment Situation Summary

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That bolded part is very noteworthy. What if GW Bush had bypassed Congress and did this to Roe? Would it be okay when his Press Secretary Dana Perino said it was okay?
    I never pay attention to what all those lawyers and law professors say about constitutional law, when there is a presidential Press Secretary's opinion to consult. But I'm particular as to which one. Nothing at all against Ms. Perino, but when I want a truly authoritative opinion on a difficult constitutional question, I turn to President Pinocchio's mouthpieces. And as clever as Mr. Jay Carney-Barker was, there is something in a name--when it comes to con law, I rely on Mr. Josh Earnest.

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Here's an excellent read on the subject:

    Ten Arguments Against Obama's Executive Action - AMAC, Inc. AMAC, Inc.

    Excerpts:

    Four: If you issue an EO making permanent residents or citizens out of a significant number (say, five to seven million) illegal, unentitled, or “undocumented” foreigners on U.S. soil, you are instantly obligating federal taxpayers and states to afford these newly minted “Americans” or “newly legal residents” any number of privileges, entitlements, and rights not previously held, above and beyond not being deported. This plainly costs taxpayers and States money, offering them every reason to appeal the decision and apparent standing to do so. (IN EFFECT, IT'S A FORM OF TAXATION WITHOUT PROPER REPRESENTATION. ALL TAX / REVENUE BILLS ARE RO ORIGINATE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, PER THE CONSTITUTION AND NOT IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. Origination Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Logicman).

    Argument five: If you issue an EO that instantly grants “stay and work” status to currently illegal aliens, even if they have legal relatives, you instantly soak up part of the job pool from which real Americans are hoping to gain employment. In effect, you are hammering the working-class Americans again.

    Six: If you issue this EO, you instantly send an international message – a new and shocking invitation: “We just gave away the citizenship or residency farm – so please line up or flood over and come get yours.” In effect, such an EO will trigger multiple future waves of illegal migration for economic purposes by new and unconnected illegal aliens who see that our laws are not being honored, and so they will come for free entry, too – if not at once, then soon enough.

    Nine: Just as adopting a child into a home affects other family members, instantly making “legal residents” or “citizens” out of five or seven million people – many of whom snuck into the country unlawfully – would have profound effects on the rest of the country. It cheapens the brand we call American; it undermines the values and processes in which we take pride. It slights and diminishes the struggle of those who have strived long and hard to become naturalized citizens, or permanent residents, many of whom are also from these same countries. It says that laws under which we live are of less value, and can be unilaterally upended by one man. It reduces respect for all those who have come to our shores legally, and who take pride in being legally American. This is no small matter. We are, collectively, only what we say we are and live up to – when we cheapen the definition of American, we cheapen it for everyone.

    Finally: We are a nation and people of laws, not of whimsy or capricious acts by self-adulating leaders, not subject to any dictator or the assumption of power by this or that president. These lines are well-drawn. The U.S. Supreme Court long ago made the point. We are not ruled by executive order, never have been, legally and prudentially cannot be, and should not now be. For any president to believe that he has the power to step upon all these legal and prudential considerations, because he has a pen and a phone, indifference to rule of law, or illusions of unilateral authority is simply misguided.


    Yeah, I mentioned that taxation without representation too.

  4. #384
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The people who are supporting this insult to constitutional government had better hope there is never a conservative administration. If a President truly has authority not to enforce federal laws he disagrees with, or even to reward millions of people who have violated them, how can they complain if those laws turn out to be ones they support?

    It was not an exercise of prosecutorial discretion when President Lincoln declined to enforce the Supreme Court's extremely divisive 1857 decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford, nor did he call it that. But the result was similar. It's clear the Framers meant the Legislative Branch, i.e. Congress, to be the strongest of the three. That's why it is the subject of Article I. If the Executive Branch, the subject of Article II, can invade Congress's powers, it can certainly invade the Supreme Court's. That was established by Article III, and the Judicial Branch has always been the weakest of the three--Jefferson didn't even want to create it.

    What grounds for squawking would the people who are strutting today about their emperor's diktat have, if a future President declined to enforce, say, Roe v. Wade--or more accurately, the part of it that still survives? After all, if a President has power to refuse to enforce acts of Congress, surely he also has power not to enforce a decision by a federal court. Both are law, and any Supreme Court decision, just like any act of Congress, means no more than the President is willing to make it mean. Or are Mr. Obama's drones so ignorant they imagine that Congress can be walked on, and yet the Supreme Court cannot?
    Presidents don't "enforce Roe v Wade". Abortion clinics are run by non-governmental entities and are not controlled by the Executive branch of the federal govt. Homeland Security and ICE are part of the Executive branch of the govt and POTUS does control them.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #385
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I never pay attention to what all those lawyers and law professors say about constitutional law, when there is a presidential Press Secretary's opinion to consult. But I'm particular as to which one. Nothing at all against Ms. Perino, but when I want a truly authoritative opinion on a difficult constitutional question, I turn to President Pinocchio's mouthpieces. And as clever as Mr. Jay Carney-Barker was, there is something in a name--when it comes to con law, I rely on Mr. Josh Earnest.
    Oh he's earnest alright.

    Josh Earnest, like Dana Perino, isn't a Constitutional authority. Like Perino, he isn't even a lawyer. He has a BA in political science. No thinking person would use a Press Secretary's opinion on Constitutionality as being worth anything.

    I'm shaking my head at some of the posts in this thread. Not sure if they're laugh worthy or I should cry for this country.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I never pay attention to what all those lawyers and law professors say about constitutional law, when there is a presidential Press Secretary's opinion to consult. But I'm particular as to which one. Nothing at all against Ms. Perino, but when I want a truly authoritative opinion on a difficult constitutional question, I turn to President Pinocchio's mouthpieces. And as clever as Mr. Jay Carney-Barker was, there is something in a name--when it comes to con law, I rely on Mr. Josh Earnest.
    I posted a link with a detailed explanation for the legal justification for Obama's action. It was signed by dozens of legal scholars who are experts in the matter. You ignored them

    Be honest. The only opinions you will listen to are those that already agree with you
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    According to one economist, based what happened in 1986, legalizing illegals to work may cause wage drops for specifically african americans due to more competition for jobs.

    Obama’s Immigration Plan Seen Affecting Wages, Job Moves

  8. #388
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    For six years the GOP has stuck up its middle finger to the President and now he finally gives it back to them. My only question is why it took so long?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    For six years the GOP has stuck up its middle finger to the President and now he finally gives it back to them. My only question is why it took so long?
    I am not surprised that you support the tyrant and the growing tyranny. It is during times like these that all of the wannabes come out.

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I am not surprised that you support the tyrant and the growing tyranny. It is during times like these that all of the wannabes come out.
    I never said I support the speech or the decision. I was merely making an observation and then asking a question.

    I do have serious questions about an imperial presidency and any president taking authority upon himself that is questionable. Sadly, for too many, those questions seem to come and go as they occupy and vacate the White House.

    When I taught US History for many years we had a textbook with a chapter entitled THE FAILURE OF THE POLITICIANS. It was about the lead up to the Civil War. I think about that and have thought about that over the last ten years.

    There are no virgins in this whore house no matter how many want to pretend otherwise.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-21-14 at 05:47 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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