View Poll Results: Is Obama breaking the law?

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  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    45 46.88%
  • No, perfectly legal

    22 22.92%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    17 17.71%
  • Not sure

    3 3.13%
  • Dont care

    3 3.13%
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Thread: Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

  1. #371
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Please stop embarrassing yourself, pete. And also, I have no idea what that other poster's post is doing there. I'm posting to you and don't read his.

    On page 1 you said what Obama did was lawful. I asked what your credentials were for making that claim, and why Obama changed his mind.
    I asked you what changed, and then you said he was talking about amnesty previously.
    I pointed out that he was not talking about amnesty previously.
    I asked you what changed between 2011 and last night.
    This was your response:



    First you said he was talking about amnesty. That post was a lie. Then you said he was wrong in 2011 when he said it was unlawful to do, and you post Dana Perino's words to somehow, I gather, back up your defense of Obama.

    The fail runs deep in your posts today.
    That is common among ObamaBots; when Obama chooses not to act, for 5 years, it is all cool and when he does choose to act... well that is cool too.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #372
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Hi Pete,

    That's actually not what he said.

    Well, first of all, temporary protective status historically has been used for special circumstances where you have immigrants to this country who are fleeing persecution in their countries, or there is some emergency situation in their native land that required them to come to the United States. So it would not be appropriate to use that just for a particular group that came here primarily, for example, because they were looking for economic opportunity.

    With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed — and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

    There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President.“


    Remarks by the President at Univision Town Hall | The White House

    In 2011 he said he didn't have the power to do this. In 2014 he said he had the power to do this. He didn't mention amnesty in 2011.

    What changed?
    I did a little research and nothing changed, he was asked about a blanket statement about students. And of course that wouldn't be legal. Here is the question he was asked:
    MR. RAMOS: Mr. President, my question will be as follows: With an executive order, could you be able to stop deportations of the students? And if that’s so, that links to another of the questions that we have received through univision.com. We have received hundreds, thousand, all related to immigration and the students. Kay Tomar (ph) through univision.com told us -- I’m reading -- “What if at least you grant temporary protective status, TPS, to undocumented students? If the answer is yes, when? And if no, why not?”
    Last edited by pbrauer; 11-21-14 at 04:31 PM.


  3. #373
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Please stop embarrassing yourself, pete. And also, I have no idea what that other poster's post is doing there. I'm posting to you and don't read his.

    On page 1 you said what Obama did was lawful. I asked what your credentials were for making that claim, and why Obama changed his mind.
    I asked you what changed, and then you said he was talking about amnesty previously.
    I pointed out that he was not talking about amnesty previously.
    I asked you what changed between 2011 and last night.
    This was your response:



    First you said he was talking about amnesty. That post was a lie. Then you said he was wrong in 2011 when he said it was unlawful to do, and you post Dana Perino's words to somehow, I gather, back up your defense of Obama.

    The fail runs deep in your posts today.
    But you dishonestly didn't include the question asked or that even that one was asked. Typical


  4. #374
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    But you dishonestly didn't include the question asked or that even that one was asked. Typical
    I wasn't dishonest. My posts are all right in this thread. Am I to understand that you don't understand what questions you're answering?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  5. #375
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I did a little research and nothing changed, he was asked about a blanket statement about students. And of course that wouldn't be legal. Here is the question he was asked:
    His answer is the very proposal he made last night. In 2011 he said he had no authority to give a temporary protective status. Last night he said otherwise.

    You said he was wrong back then. Now you're saying he was right back then? Make up your mind.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  6. #376
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Am I to understand that you don't understand what questions you're answering?
    Not even close

    When you put words in other poster's mouths, you fail
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #377
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    His answer is the very proposal he made last night. In 2011 he said he had no authority to give a temporary protective status. Last night he said otherwise.

    You said he was wrong back then. Now you're saying he was right back then? Make up your mind.
    Backin 2011 he was asked if could give blanket protection to students and he said no. That's not any shape of form what he said last night.


  8. #378
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Backin 2011 he was asked if could give blanket protection to students and he said no. That's not any shape of form what he said last night.
    You didn't read his words, did you?

    Well, first of all, temporary protective status historically has been used for special circumstances where you have immigrants to this country who are fleeing persecution in their countries, or there is some emergency situation in their native land that required them to come to the United States. So it would not be appropriate to use that just for a particular group that came here primarily, for example, because they were looking for economic opportunity.

    With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed — and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

    There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President.“


    Whether talking about students or housewives is irrelevant. Those were his words.

    His words in 2011 were different than his words last night. You know it, but your obscene partisanship prohibits you from honestly admitting that.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  9. #379
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    The people who are supporting this insult to constitutional government had better hope there is never a conservative administration. If a President truly has authority not to enforce federal laws he disagrees with, or even to reward millions of people who have violated them, how can they complain if those laws turn out to be ones they support?

    It was not an exercise of prosecutorial discretion when President Lincoln declined to enforce the Supreme Court's extremely divisive 1857 decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford, nor did he call it that. But the result was similar. It's clear the Framers meant the Legislative Branch, i.e. Congress, to be the strongest of the three. That's why it is the subject of Article I. If the Executive Branch, the subject of Article II, can invade Congress's powers, it can certainly invade the Supreme Court's. That was established by Article III, and the Judicial Branch has always been the weakest of the three--Jefferson didn't even want to create it.

    What grounds for squawking would the people who are strutting today about their emperor's diktat have, if a future President declined to enforce, say, Roe v. Wade--or more accurately, the part of it that still survives? After all, if a President has power to refuse to enforce acts of Congress, surely he also has power not to enforce a decision by a federal court. Both are law, and any Supreme Court decision, just like any act of Congress, means no more than the President is willing to make it mean. Or are Mr. Obama's drones so ignorant they imagine that Congress can be walked on, and yet the Supreme Court cannot?

  10. #380
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The people who are supporting this insult to constitutional government had better hope there is never a conservative administration. If a President truly has authority not to enforce federal laws he disagrees with, or even to reward millions of people who have violated them, how can they complain if those laws turn out to be ones they support?

    It was not an exercise of prosecutorial discretion when President Lincoln declined to enforce the Supreme Court's extremely divisive 1857 decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford, nor did he call it that. But the result was similar. It's clear the Framers meant the Legislative Branch, i.e. Congress, to be the strongest of the three. That's why it is the subject of Article I. If the Executive Branch, the subject of Article II, can invade Congress's powers, it can certainly invade the Supreme Court's. That was established by Article III, and the Judicial Branch has always been the weakest of the three--Jefferson didn't even want to create it.

    What grounds for squawking would the people who are strutting today about their emperor's diktat have, if a future President declined to enforce, say, Roe v. Wade--or more accurately, the part of it that still survives? After all, if a President has power to refuse to enforce acts of Congress, surely he also has power not to enforce a decision by a federal court. Both are law, and any Supreme Court decision, just like any act of Congress, means no more than the President is willing to make it mean. Or are Mr. Obama's drones so ignorant they imagine that Congress can be walked on, and yet the Supreme Court cannot?
    That bolded part is very noteworthy. What if GW Bush had bypassed Congress and did this to Roe? Would it be okay when his Press Secretary Dana Perino said it was okay?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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