View Poll Results: Is Obama breaking the law?

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  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    45 46.88%
  • No, perfectly legal

    22 22.92%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    17 17.71%
  • Not sure

    3 3.13%
  • Dont care

    3 3.13%
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    6 6.25%
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Thread: Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

  1. #361
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Then I would be correct to characterize your position as: The ends justify lying...as long as I agree with the ends?

    Look...I'm just trying to understand you. Of course, you don't owe me anything and you would be perfectly justified in not answering my questions. If you don't want to answer me...just say so and I'll stop asking.
    There is no "magic formula" which is what you seem to be looking for. I'm sorry that it won't fit on a bumper sticker, but life is complicated like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #362
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No, its not.
    What he did wasn't lawful? You said on page 1 it was. And you said the reason it was is because Dana Perino said it was.

    She has no credentials to make that claim. So why do you use her words as proof positive that what Obama has proposed is perfectly within his rights?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  3. #363
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Here's an excellent read on the subject:

    Ten Arguments Against Obama's Executive Action - AMAC, Inc. AMAC, Inc.

    Excerpts:

    Four: If you issue an EO making permanent residents or citizens out of a significant number (say, five to seven million) illegal, unentitled, or “undocumented” foreigners on U.S. soil, you are instantly obligating federal taxpayers and states to afford these newly minted “Americans” or “newly legal residents” any number of privileges, entitlements, and rights not previously held, above and beyond not being deported. This plainly costs taxpayers and States money, offering them every reason to appeal the decision and apparent standing to do so. (IN EFFECT, IT'S A FORM OF TAXATION WITHOUT PROPER REPRESENTATION. ALL TAX / REVENUE BILLS ARE RO ORIGINATE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, PER THE CONSTITUTION AND NOT IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. Origination Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Logicman).

    Argument five: If you issue an EO that instantly grants “stay and work” status to currently illegal aliens, even if they have legal relatives, you instantly soak up part of the job pool from which real Americans are hoping to gain employment. In effect, you are hammering the working-class Americans again.

    Six: If you issue this EO, you instantly send an international message – a new and shocking invitation: “We just gave away the citizenship or residency farm – so please line up or flood over and come get yours.” In effect, such an EO will trigger multiple future waves of illegal migration for economic purposes by new and unconnected illegal aliens who see that our laws are not being honored, and so they will come for free entry, too – if not at once, then soon enough.

    Nine: Just as adopting a child into a home affects other family members, instantly making “legal residents” or “citizens” out of five or seven million people – many of whom snuck into the country unlawfully – would have profound effects on the rest of the country. It cheapens the brand we call American; it undermines the values and processes in which we take pride. It slights and diminishes the struggle of those who have strived long and hard to become naturalized citizens, or permanent residents, many of whom are also from these same countries. It says that laws under which we live are of less value, and can be unilaterally upended by one man. It reduces respect for all those who have come to our shores legally, and who take pride in being legally American. This is no small matter. We are, collectively, only what we say we are and live up to – when we cheapen the definition of American, we cheapen it for everyone.

    Finally: We are a nation and people of laws, not of whimsy or capricious acts by self-adulating leaders, not subject to any dictator or the assumption of power by this or that president. These lines are well-drawn. The U.S. Supreme Court long ago made the point. We are not ruled by executive order, never have been, legally and prudentially cannot be, and should not now be. For any president to believe that he has the power to step upon all these legal and prudential considerations, because he has a pen and a phone, indifference to rule of law, or illusions of unilateral authority is simply misguided.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  4. #364
    Mixed Government advocate
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'm no lawyer so I have no idea if what Obama is doing is good, or bad, or Constitutional, or not, but what I do know as a grown up is that he baited them last night, and meltdowns from the GOP are only going to make the situation worse - and make them look worse.

    In the business world none of this would be happening, and if it did, the company would end up failing completely if senior management acted as they are in Washington.

    If the GOP really wants to have a chance at the WH in 2016, they have to earn it, and acting petty and belligerent isn't going to work. They need to be calm, rational, and have their facts.

    here you go:

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Constitution
    article 2 section 3

    He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.


    shall is mandatory

    may is discretionary

  5. #365
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    you said the reason it was is because Dana Perino said it was.
    He did not say that. Not on page 1 or any other page

    Please stop posting lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #366
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is no "magic formula" which is what you seem to be looking for. I'm sorry that it won't fit on a bumper sticker, but life is complicated like that.
    Oh, I know. That's why I added that last part that you spoke of..."as long as I agree with the ends".
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  7. #367
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    here you go:
    Thanks. I've seen some things that reference that as well. I've also seen counter arguments (including the one pbrauer mentioned).

    I wonder if this isn't a job for SCOTUS.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #368
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    He did not say that. Not on page 1 or any other page

    Please stop posting lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    What he did wasn't lawful? You said on page 1 it was. And you said the reason it was is because Dana Perino said it was.

    She has no credentials to make that claim. So why do you use her words as proof positive that what Obama has proposed is perfectly within his rights?
    I didn't say that, I told you I used her because she is a partisan.

    Obama Immigration Executive Action: Why It Will Be Legal | New Republic


  9. #369
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I didn't say that, I told you I used her because she is a partisan.

    Obama Immigration Executive Action: Why It Will Be Legal | New Republic
    Please stop embarrassing yourself, pete. And also, I have no idea what that other poster's post is doing there. I'm posting to you and don't read his.

    On page 1 you said what Obama did was lawful. I asked what your credentials were for making that claim, and why Obama changed his mind.
    I asked you what changed, and then you said he was talking about amnesty previously.
    I pointed out that he was not talking about amnesty previously.
    I asked you what changed between 2011 and last night.
    This was your response:

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    He was wrong back then, he has prosecutorial discretion as Dana Perino pointed out yesterday.

    Dana Perino: Obama ‘Has the Prosecutorial Discretion’ to Act on Immigration | Mediaite
    First you said he was talking about amnesty. That post was a lie. Then you said he was wrong in 2011 when he said it was unlawful to do, and you post Dana Perino's words to somehow, I gather, back up your defense of Obama.

    The fail runs deep in your posts today.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  10. #370
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    It takes two to tango and Obama is the most partisan president in my memory and has created the most divided government in history.
    Liberals said the same thing about Bush. So the pendulum swings.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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