View Poll Results: Is Obama breaking the law?

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  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    45 46.88%
  • No, perfectly legal

    22 22.92%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    17 17.71%
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    3 3.13%
  • Dont care

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Thread: Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

  1. #281
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    there was not urgency that could not have waited for the new session of congress.
    But of course there was an urgency!

    Obama had to get this in place before the new congress was in session and he had to do something to stem his sliding poll numbers.
    That's awfully urgent, even if it's in his mind only.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Given the fact that when she was press secretary she was probably extensively briefed on GWB similar executive actions, I bet she knows more than you.
    Never mind what I know about it. Andy McCarthy, just to cite one example, was interviewed by Megyn Kelly on that same network. McCarthy, unlike Perino, is a lawyer. He spent twenty years or more as a federal prosecutor, leading the prosecution of Abdel "The Blink Sheikh" Rahman and other conspirators in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. That experience gives him a very thorough knowledge of prosecutorial discretion, and he flatly disagrees with Ms. Perino's view.

    So does John Yoo, a law professor at UC Berkeley School of Law. He and John Delahunty, another law professor who earlier served in the Justice Department as Yoo did, just wrote about this. This is from their article:


    Prosecutorial discretion is indeed one of the president’s affirmative authorities and is rooted in the text of the Constitution. But its primary sphere of operation is in the criminal law. The executive’s power not to bring a criminal case even against a suspect who is likely to have committed a crime can be seen as a logical corollary of the president’s power to pardon. Clemency for those accused or convicted of crimes had long been considered an essential attribute of rulers, and the Framers vested that traditional authority in the president. Moreover, prosecutorial discretion in the criminal area makes sense in separation-of-powers terms: If Congress has enacted a criminal statute that is too harsh, or has become obsolete, or clearly was not intended to apply in a specific situation, prosecutorial discretion serves the constitutional goal of protecting individual liberty from the tyranny of one branch. But the Constitution provides no affirmative presidential power not to enforce the civil law as against a class of 5 million people. That is not “prosecutorial discretion”; it is simply the refusal to discharge a basic constitutional duty.


    Why don't you just admit that all you care about is getting the outcome you want, and that you don't give a tinker's damn whether getting it violates the Constitution? That's how your President feels. It's been clear to a lot of us for a long time now that Obama has nothing but contempt for the rule of law, for the Constitution, and for this country generally.

  3. #283
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Without a doubt its perfectly perfectly legal.
    no.. its not.

  4. #284
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    He's a politician!!

    Just look to see if his lips are moving
    Okay, sangha...since you've injected yourself into this mini-discussion, I'll ask you, too. Do you condone Obama's lying?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  5. #285
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Never mind what I know about it. Andy McCarthy, just to cite one example, was interviewed by Megyn Kelly on that same network. McCarthy, unlike Perino, is a lawyer. He spent twenty years or more as a federal prosecutor, leading the prosecution of Abdel "The Blink Sheikh" Rahman and other conspirators in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. That experience gives him a very thorough knowledge of prosecutorial discretion, and he flatly disagrees with Ms. Perino's view.

    So does John Yoo, a law professor at UC Berkeley School of Law. He and John Delahunty, another law professor who earlier served in the Justice Department as Yoo did, just wrote about this. This is from their article:


    Prosecutorial discretion is indeed one of the president’s affirmative authorities and is rooted in the text of the Constitution. But its primary sphere of operation is in the criminal law. The executive’s power not to bring a criminal case even against a suspect who is likely to have committed a crime can be seen as a logical corollary of the president’s power to pardon. Clemency for those accused or convicted of crimes had long been considered an essential attribute of rulers, and the Framers vested that traditional authority in the president. Moreover, prosecutorial discretion in the criminal area makes sense in separation-of-powers terms: If Congress has enacted a criminal statute that is too harsh, or has become obsolete, or clearly was not intended to apply in a specific situation, prosecutorial discretion serves the constitutional goal of protecting individual liberty from the tyranny of one branch. But the Constitution provides no affirmative presidential power not to enforce the civil law as against a class of 5 million people. That is not “prosecutorial discretion”; it is simply the refusal to discharge a basic constitutional duty.


    Why don't you just admit that like Mr. Obama, all you care about is getting the outcome you want, and that you don't give a tinker's damn whether getting it violates the Constitution? It's been clear to a lot of us for a long time now that Obama has nothing but contempt for the rule of law, for the Constitution, and for this country generally. The U.S. is now infested with millions of collectivist drones who feel the same way.
    Since you're so obviously enamored with what lawyers say about it, here's what several dozen of them say about this matter


    http://www.nilc.org/document.html?id=754

    General authority for defered action exists under Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) § 103(a), 8 U.S.C. § 1103(a), which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to enforce the immigration laws. Though no statutes oregulations delineate defered action in specific terms, the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that decisions to initate or terminate enforcement procedings fall squarely within the authority of the Executive. In the immigration context, the Executive Branch has exercised its general enforcement authority to grant defered action since at least 1971. Federal courts have acknowledged the existence of this executive power at least as far back as the mid–1970s.5
    Parole–in–place refers to a form of parole granted by the Executive Branch under
    the authority of INA § 212(d)(5), 8 U.S.C. § 182(d)(5).
    Under this provision, the Atorney
    General “may . . in his discretion parole into the United States temporarily under such
    conditons as he may prescribe only on a case–by–case basis for urgent humanitarian
    reasons or significant public benefit any alien aplying for admision to the United
    States.”7 Parole permits a noncitzen to remain lawfuly in the United States, although
    parole does not constiute an “admision” under the INA. Individuals who have ben
    paroled are eligible for work authorization
    Defered enforced departure, often refered to as DED, is a form of prosecutorial
    discretion that is closely related to defered action. Almost every Administration since
    President Dwight D. Eisenhower has granted DED or the analogous “Extended Voluntary
    Departure” to at least one group of noncitzens.15 As with defered action, executive
    authority to grant defered enforced departure and extended voluntary departure exists
    under the general authority to enforce the immigration laws as set out in INA § 103(a), 8
    U.S.C. § 1103(a)
    .1
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Constitution
    article 2 section 3

    He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.


    shall is mandatory

    may is discretionary

  7. #287
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Not the place to talk about Bush, is it?

    So...do you agree that it's hard to impossible to tell when Obama is lying and when he's not?
    What's good for the goose...


  8. #288
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    He was wrong back then, he has prosecutorial discretion as Dana Perino pointed out yesterday.

    Dana Perino: Obama ‘Has the Prosecutorial Discretion’ to Act on Immigration | Mediaite
    One other thing I noticed you didn't address. In the post I quoted you said that he was talking about amnesty in 2011. I just pointed out to you that he did not in fact mention amnesty, and you didn't address that at all, and instead put a link to show that someone on Fox News said what he did wasn't against the law. Why did you not address the fact that he never mentioned amnesty in 2011, as you claimed he did?

    Was your post a lie?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  9. #289
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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    What's good for the goose...
    Let it be noted that you avoid answering my question.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama's Executive Order

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    MSNBC has it--for GOPs who can't stand what Obama looks like, not you, such as Congressman Mo Brooks who today wants to jail Obama.
    I recommend putting a towel over the television so folks can just hear his voice.

    10-minute speech-
    Also, could be on some radio outlets along with Sirius--bound to be replays--FOX already had the main excerpts .
    I want to jail Obama too. Impeach him. Convict him. Remove him from office. Then arrest him and try him for treason. Jail him.

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