View Poll Results: Is it legal for the President to assume legislative power?

Voters
32. You may not vote on this poll
  • Right Leaning, Not Legal

    22 68.75%
  • Right Leaning, Legal

    0 0%
  • Left Leaning, Not Legal

    6 18.75%
  • Left Leaning, Legal

    4 12.50%
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 89

Thread: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

  1. #1
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,067

    Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Regardless of the politics, is it legal for the POTUS to simply assume the ability to pass Legislation, rather than Veto / Enact it? Does our system of checks and balance of powers really grant the President the authority to do as he wishes and dare Congress to stop him?



    For those of you who are tempted to vote "yes" because you A) agree with the policy and B) think that it's a situation that needs to be fixed in a timely manner, I want you to imagine President Scott Walker (or fill in any Republican, really) making the exact same argument, but instead of Immigration Reform, it's about Entitlement Reform.


    "Our Entitlements are in danger. People are in danger. That's why I've decided through Executive Action to enact Paul Ryan's Medicare Reforms and privatize Social Security. Now, if the Congress can get me a bill that I can sign
    [ie: that I agree with], then obviously that bill will take precedence. But until then, we've got to act.



    etc. Remember, everything this guy does is setting a precedent.

  2. #2
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,544

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Regardless of the politics, is it legal for the POTUS to simply assume the ability to pass Legislation, rather than Veto / Enact it? Does our system of checks and balance of powers really grant the President the authority to do as he wishes and dare Congress to stop him?



    For those of you who are tempted to vote "yes" because you A) agree with the policy and B) think that it's a situation that needs to be fixed in a timely manner, I want you to imagine President Scott Walker (or fill in any Republican, really) making the exact same argument, but instead of Immigration Reform, it's about Entitlement Reform.


    "Our Entitlements are in danger. People are in danger. That's why I've decided through Executive Action to enact Paul Ryan's Medicare Reforms and privatize Social Security. Now, if the Congress can get me a bill that I can sign
    [ie: that I agree with], then obviously that bill will take precedence. But until then, we've got to act.



    etc. Remember, everything this guy does is setting a precedent.
    Perhaps a better example is the "war on drugs"; could the POTUS, via EO, simply say that the federal gov't will no longer enforce narcotics trafficking laws and give street drug dealers a "path to legitimacy"? Could the DOJ aggressively pursue any state that dared to interfere with that federal authority? Could the POTUS use an EO to defund those states that do not behave as directed?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #3
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:24 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,217

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Regardless of the politics, is it legal for the POTUS to simply assume the ability to pass Legislation, rather than Veto / Enact it? Does our system of checks and balance of powers really grant the President the authority to do as he wishes and dare Congress to stop him?



    For those of you who are tempted to vote "yes" because you A) agree with the policy and B) think that it's a situation that needs to be fixed in a timely manner, I want you to imagine President Scott Walker (or fill in any Republican, really) making the exact same argument, but instead of Immigration Reform, it's about Entitlement Reform.


    "Our Entitlements are in danger. People are in danger. That's why I've decided through Executive Action to enact Paul Ryan's Medicare Reforms and privatize Social Security. Now, if the Congress can get me a bill that I can sign
    [ie: that I agree with], then obviously that bill will take precedence. But until then, we've got to act.



    etc. Remember, everything this guy does is setting a precedent.

    If it is legal, we need a new law.

  4. #4
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    For the record: I am a pro-immigration (and, yes, "pro-amnesty") "extremist". I happen to believe that the USA is/supposed to be an entity different from the nation-states of the Old World, by design and by spirit. Living and working in America cannot be a crime, whether you have a stamped affidavit-of-whatever in your pocket or not. (That doesn't make me "left" or even "left-leaning" in the least, by the way - quite the opposite, if you think about it).

    Now, answering the question: NO. The Executive has no right "enacting" non-existent laws over the head of the Legislative. Period. If we allow this, all the "teeming masses" aspiring for a better future for their children got a Wrong Address.

  5. #5
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,400

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Regardless of how you feel about this issue, the question of whether executive orders are "legal" is absurd. Of course they are. Moreover, Obama is hardly unprecedented in his use of them, or even gratuitous in his use of them. In fact he has been fairly restrained in his use of them considering the financial crisis and deep recession he took office in the midst of. Point being the "president" was set long ago:

    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  6. #6
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Republic of Florida
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 12:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,003

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Regardless of how you feel about this issue, the question of whether executive orders are "legal" is absurd. Of course they are. Moreover, Obama is hardly unprecedented in his use of them, or even gratuitous in his use of them. In fact he has been fairly restrained in his use of them considering the financial crisis and deep recession he took office in the midst of. Point being the "president" was set long ago:

    Thats not the argument though, its whether specific orders are legal. The method in which the President executes his executive power is not in question.

  7. #7
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Lumping all "executive orders" - regardless of their relationship to existing legislation - together makes very little sense.
    But doesn't the FDR's highest score tell you something about the nature of dangers involved? If you are an American-Japanese, it sure does....

  8. #8
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,400

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    The point is he is not the "imperial president" he is made out to be. Hell I think he has been a impotent president for much of his presidency. Whether or not any executive orders he issues regarding immigration are legal or not is a question for the federal judiciary.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #9
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,400

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Thats not the argument though, its whether specific orders are legal. The method in which the President executes his executive power is not in question.
    Read the OP its a general question and made the comparison between an executive order on immigration and a hypothetical one on entitlement reform. Then argued it was some kind of president. Its hardly a president when you are doing something at a lower rate than any other president since Grover Cleveland.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #10
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,544

    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The point is he is not the "imperial president" he is made out to be. Hell I think he has been a impotent president for much of his presidency. Whether or not any executive orders he issues regarding immigration are legal or not is a question for the federal judiciary.
    If the executive has no duty to enforce the laws and can even change them then what difference does it make when congress passes a law? Are laws now mere options that the executive can enforce/ignore if they so choose while inventing alternative laws and enforcing those instead?

    The judiciary can only say (interpret) what the law is and yet still must rely on the executive to abide their wishes. The path is clear when the executive refuses to uphold the law - impeachment by the legislature.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •