View Poll Results: Is it legal for the President to assume legislative power?

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  • Right Leaning, Not Legal

    22 68.75%
  • Right Leaning, Legal

    0 0%
  • Left Leaning, Not Legal

    6 18.75%
  • Left Leaning, Legal

    4 12.50%
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Thread: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It saves you from the cognitive dissonance and making a stand that can be referenced later. Either you have to break from the President, or give up your right to complain when Republican Presidents do the same thing later.
    Break from the president?

    Which one?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #32
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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    What are his planned actions?
    Simply "deem" amnesty to have passed, looks like.

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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Break from the president?

    Which one?
    The current one.

    I like how you're trying to spin away from the question. It won't work but it's cute how ya'll's only possible strategy is to avoid.

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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Regardless of the politics,
    is it legal for the POTUS to simply assume the ability to pass Legislation, rather than Veto / Enact it? Does our system of checks and balance of powers really grant the President the authority to do as he wishes and dare Congress to stop him?




    For those of you who are tempted to vote "yes" because you A) agree with the policy and B) think that it's a situation that needs to be fixed in a timely manner, I want you to imagine President Scott Walker (or fill in any Republican, really) making the exact same argument, but instead of Immigration Reform, it's about Entitlement Reform.


    "Our Entitlements are in danger. People are in danger. That's why I've decided through Executive Action to enact Paul Ryan's Medicare Reforms and privatize Social Security. Now, if the Congress can get me a bill that I can sign
    [ie: that I agree with], then obviously that bill will take precedence. But until then, we've got to act.



    etc. Remember, everything this guy does is setting a precedent.


    Anything that doesn't result in the president being impeached and thrown out of office is legal.

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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If it is legal, we need a new law.


    Which could be ignored, just like some old laws have been, eh?

  6. #36
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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Regardless of the politics, is it legal for the POTUS to simply assume the ability to pass Legislation, rather than Veto / Enact it? Does our system of checks and balance of powers really grant the President the authority to do as he wishes and dare Congress to stop him?



    For those of you who are tempted to vote "yes" because you A) agree with the policy and B) think that it's a situation that needs to be fixed in a timely manner, I want you to imagine President Scott Walker (or fill in any Republican, really) making the exact same argument, but instead of Immigration Reform, it's about Entitlement Reform.


    "Our Entitlements are in danger. People are in danger. That's why I've decided through Executive Action to enact Paul Ryan's Medicare Reforms and privatize Social Security. Now, if the Congress can get me a bill that I can sign
    [ie: that I agree with], then obviously that bill will take precedence. But until then, we've got to act.



    etc.
    Remember, everything this guy does is setting a precedent.


    Every thing that any president does and gets away with sets a precedent.

  7. #37
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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Regardless of the politics, is it legal for the POTUS to simply assume the ability to pass Legislation, rather than Veto / Enact it? Does our system of checks and balance of powers really grant the President the authority to do as he wishes and dare Congress to stop him?



    For those of you who are tempted to vote "yes" because you A) agree with the policy and B) think that it's a situation that needs to be fixed in a timely manner, I want you to imagine President Scott Walker (or fill in any Republican, really) making the exact same argument, but instead of Immigration Reform, it's about Entitlement Reform.


    "Our Entitlements are in danger. People are in danger. That's why I've decided through Executive Action to enact Paul Ryan's Medicare Reforms and privatize Social Security. Now, if the Congress can get me a bill that I can sign
    [ie: that I agree with], then obviously that bill will take precedence. But until then, we've got to act.



    etc. Remember, everything this guy does is setting a precedent.
    Though as a centrist I'm not able to vote in the poll ..

    .. I would definitely say it's not legal.

    I find it interesting that, at this moment in time, even those with some degree of left-leaning are saying it's not legal as well, more than there are left-leaners saying it's legal, though that may have something to do with your OP's hitting-home counter example.

    Indeed, the SCOTUS has overturned executive orders in the past when one or both of two things were present: 1) it was not clear that the order was supported by U.S. law, and 2) the Congress was strongly opposed to the executive order absent specific congressional legislation. In this specific case, both things are present.

    In this case, the awarding of green cards would not be supported by the procedure and protocol of U.S. law as the recipients did not follow the U.S. law-specified procedure to so obtain them.

    The President would thus be acting either dictatorially, thumbing his nose at U.S. statutes as well as Congress (as Congress is definitely opposed to this executive order), or, in essence, issuing a pardon of a sort, and pardons are not done through executive orders as they are not the same ( Pardon Power legal definition of Pardon Power ).

    I am, however, concerned with what I sense to be a "martyr syndrome" in this President.

    He could get himself into serious, serious trouble with such an executive order, and if he thinks he's "saving" these people and this is the last chance he has of doing so and he's "the only one who can save them", he may indeed mount a cross.

    Doing so would be, however, really short-sighted, as legalizing roughly 22 to 23 million people (yes, it's not the "11 to 12" million false number so many left-leaners love to minimize) will have a major impact on lowering wage scales across the board, for one thing, to likely a recession (or worse) causing degree.

    The uproar this would cause among the great majority of Americans would be significant, not just because of the injustice of it all, but due to the harm such a mistake would inflict on the wallets of so many.

    It would be foolish for Obama, both personally and nationally, for him to so martyr himself, taking his country with him.

    It makes me think that his allegiance is conflicted, as if his own foreign roots (his father was a transient alien -- not an immigrant -- from Kenya) are causing him some cognitive dissonance in the matter that's clouding his better judgment and compromising his loyalty to the American citizens he's entrusted to protect.

    Considering illegal aliens have committed crimes -- trespassing, identity forging, and jobs, living space, roadway space, classroom, and other resource stealing -- crimes all of which harmed American citizens, obviously, that Obama would even think of such an amnesty executive order, and without providing compensation to the American citizens who were wronged by the illegal aliens ..

    .. Indicates that he's simply not thinking straight.

    In my book, that might be grounds to begin impeachment proceedings, as such an executive order is also most definitely a form of ..

    .. Treason.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Anything that doesn't result in the president being impeached and thrown out of office is legal.
    Not legal, just tolerated. Speeding is illegal whether you get caught or punished, or not.

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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Every thing that any president does and gets away with sets a precedent.
    Precedent isnt law though.

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    Re: Is it LEGAL for POTUS to "borrow" legislative power to pass immigration reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The current one.
    You mean the one I never voted for?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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