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Thread: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

  1. #21
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    True enough, but do we know how much time we have before the balloon goes up on the economy?

    I distinctly remember people saying after Clinton that once the Republicans took office they would be able to begin to turn the country around. Nothing happened. When Bush was about to step down Democrats said that if they could regain the power things would begin to change and the country would turn around. Nada. Indeed, Obama ran on the buzzword "Change". Did we get change? No.

    People have less money, less freedom and are less happy than before and that has been going on for decades. That momentum hasn't been reversed. Nothing much at all has improved for most Americans. We have seen the huge continuation of wealth transfer from the middle to the upper class. We seen freedoms erode to less than we've ever had. In many ways things have progressively become less or worse than they were previously, one administration after another.

    Still people continue to vote for either party and repeat the same mantra, "once _____ gets into office we can start working on turning things around". Things don't turn around and yet Americans continue to believe the same lies from damned near the same people in Washington.

    I have zero faith in either party. I may vote for a Republican or a Democrat from time to time. More often than not I don't. Certainly I would NEVER vote for a Republican or Democrat for president. I vote third party. I vote to impose term limits by never voting for anyone who has served 2 terms. NEVER/ANYONE.

    It amazes me, blows me away that people would even consider voting for a person who is a member of a political family. How are more Bushes, Obamas, Clintons, Bidens, Romneys, Pauls, etc. going to make things better? I don't want their good old boy network contacts, the old establishment way of doing things, the long established private money/power/friendships/teams in my government. I want those bastards out. If I don't want career politicians why the hell would I want families of career politicians? That just all but guarantees more of what the country doesn't need.

    I'd love to start with campaign reform and term limits. Strict campaign reform. It would be a great beginning. Washington would never work so hard in a bi-partisan way as it would to stop a real, robust, organized threat to impose serious campaign reform and term limits with no grandfathering.

    I've seen two threads here addressing the issue of government dissatisfaction. One was, "Is there a perfect government?" My post in that thread said, "there can only be a government as good as the people". The other one is trying to rewrite the Constitution, but I told the thread leaders that it's not broken and improbable that we could ever agree on changing the whole thing.

    The problem isn't with our form of government, rather it's with the nature and weakness of people. A simple set of laws and rules could govern all of society, if people could but abide by them and their application. Alan Greenspan was asked could he have prevented the credit bust, which caused the 2008 Recession? And he said with a grin, "No, and it will happen again." He knew that it was self interest that drives people and though it's an asset in some ways, it's also a cause of most of our social ills.

    People are creatures of habit and will keep repeating the same methodology out of familiarity, which is comfortable. Only changing the type of politicians, by removing some of the big money influence, can we rebuild the system to help the working class.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #22
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Bang on the money! Exactly.
    Removable Mind: Transparency in our government is a joke. Congress will do nothing to legislate the laws needed to make it accountable...truly accountable. It's moving in the opposite direct. The Executive office -- obviously the same problem. The S.C., activism has become it's primary role.
    Risky, found the following link this morning, which is a shining example of Congress shielding itself from accountability. Although the article is pointing at the right. If it wasn't the right trying to circumvent "a type of campaign finance reform which would eliminate almost untraceable big money being dropped into dubious nonprofit PACs" it would surely be the left. Both sides have fought to keep lots of special interests money flowing into their coffers.

    Yes a few in Washington have opposed the current campaign funding rules, regulations (which are now almost none). But something tells me that's a dog and pony show.

    WASHINGTON -- Over the past three years, House Republicans have repeatedly tried, and failed, to bar federal agencies from adopting regulations to govern the campaign finance landscape created by the Supreme Court's 2010 Citizens United decision. Now, with their party seizing control of the Senate, that effort to stop new rules may win, too.

    The Senate will likely be led next year by the primary antagonist to campaign finance reformers, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). Over three decades, McConnell has made it a top priority to disrupt and degrade campaign finance regulations. With a firm belief that limits on campaign funds are a direct impediment to the First Amendment right of free speech, he has opposed past reform efforts, including challenging in court the 2002 McCain-Feingold law, the passage of which he once called the worst day in his political career.

    ~~~Snip~~~

    After a host of congressional hearings, firings and suspensions, the IRS announced a rulemaking procedure to write new regulations covering both the way it undertakes the approval and review of tax-exempt status and the means by which it judges whether a tax-exempt group has spent an inappropriate amount of time electioneering.

    ~~~Snip~~~

    If Congress moves to block new IRS rules on nonprofits' political spending through a rider or other means, Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21, said he will fight it. "This is open and shut that the [current] regulations do not comply with the law," he said. "If Congress blocks this, we will bring our lawsuit again."

    But Fred Wertheimer is not focused only on the fate of potential IRS regulations. Since 2011, Republicans have also introduced legislation and attempted to attach spending-bill riders to gut the ability of other agencies -- including the Federal Communications Commission and the Securities and Exchange Commission -- to write rules on campaign funding and spending. Even when the Republican measures didn't pass, the threat was felt.

    Mitch McConnell's Triumph Strikes Worry In The Hearts Of Campaign Finance Reformers

    Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar-big-money-jpg

    In other words, just another attempt to avoid accountability. And the American people should make no mistake, it's been happening on both sides of the isle in one fashion or another. They are equally guilty.

    This issue has significant implications in how it impacts the voters voice as they aren't equipped to create the types of PAC that influence their interests like big money entities. But the bad part is in the loopholes in the current laws prevent disclosure of who is dumping 10's of millions into almost instantly appearing PACs created by supposedly nonprofits at the latter stages of elections (1 month prior to general elections). These nonprofits strongly appear to be loophole scams and there's no way to enforce regulations to prevent them from forming and "anonymously" funnel huge amounts in last minute efforts to gain favor for candidates.

    And once again, although my post is pointed a the right's reaction to rules and regulations regarding campaign reform - the left would ultimately want to intervene to prevent such rule, regulations and laws from taking place or being enforced. Freewheeling, unlimited donations are landing in the laps of both Republicans and Democrats....with no way to know who specifically who the figureheads of these so-called nonprofit PACS are, nor who the big money contributors are who put huge sums in them.

  3. #23
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Risky, found the following link this morning, which is a shining example of Congress shielding itself from accountability. Although the article is pointing at the right. If it wasn't the right trying to circumvent "a type of campaign finance reform which would eliminate almost untraceable big money being dropped into dubious nonprofit PACs" it would surely be the left. Both sides have fought to keep lots of special interests money flowing into their coffers.

    Yes a few in Washington have opposed the current campaign funding rules, regulations (which are now almost none). But something tells me that's a dog and pony show.



    Mitch McConnell's Triumph Strikes Worry In The Hearts Of Campaign Finance Reformers

    Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar-big-money-jpg

    In other words, just another attempt to avoid accountability. And the American people should make no mistake, it's been happening on both sides of the isle in one fashion or another. They are equally guilty.

    This issue has significant implications in how it impacts the voters voice as they aren't equipped to create the types of PAC that influence their interests like big money entities. But the bad part is in the loopholes in the current laws prevent disclosure of who is dumping 10's of millions into almost instantly appearing PACs created by supposedly nonprofits at the latter stages of elections (1 month prior to general elections). These nonprofits strongly appear to be loophole scams and there's no way to enforce regulations to prevent them from forming and "anonymously" funnel huge amounts in last minute efforts to gain favor for candidates.

    And once again, although my post is pointed a the right's reaction to rules and regulations regarding campaign reform - the left would ultimately want to intervene to prevent such rule, regulations and laws from taking place or being enforced. Freewheeling, unlimited donations are landing in the laps of both Republicans and Democrats....with no way to know who specifically who the figureheads of these so-called nonprofit PACS are, nor who the big money contributors are who put huge sums in them.

    That is a fine post, RM! You nailed it. That is much of what bothers me. Washington is adamantly opposed to any real change and certainly the change they are most likely to fight in a bi-partisan effort is campaign finance reform.

    Perhaps the way to attack it is to attack term limits first with no grandfathering. That should take some of the incentive away from the career political parasites who do little more than lord it up in DC on the People's nickel. McConnell is an excellent example of that. To be fair and just close your eyes and throw a dart at the Hill and most of the ruling class are like that. They are not - no, nay, never - going to give up the semi-royal deal they have going. The public will have to take it away.

    What's worse it that big bidness, Wall Street and the like are very much opposed to clean, honest and fair elections as well. We don't know how much money from big bidness is filtered through PACs but we must assume that it amounts 10s and 10s of millions. Not to mention foreign money dark money. Anyone reading this who doesn't think foreign money buys American politician and American foreign policy and favorable trade policy speak up. We all know that it happens. That is in no way democracy in action. It is treason in my world.

    We get all hinky because someone voted 12 times in East Jesus, Idaho, but at the same time Saudi Arabia spends countless millions to buy favorable American policy and trade by throwing dark money around and thus buying elections - and Americans say nothing. Israel and god know how many other foreign nations buy politicians and policy and in essence pee on the American political process and Congress with money stuffed in its pockets just grinning and backslapping.

    All the while huge American businesses own Congress on a daily basis. Big business owns Washington. Owns it. Big business damn sure doesn't want any American to have a fair, open and honest government. Campaign reform efforts will have all of the money and power of all of the above working together to stop it.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  4. #24
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    That is a fine post, RM! You nailed it. That is much of what bothers me. Washington is adamantly opposed to any real change and certainly the change they are most likely to fight in a bi-partisan effort is campaign finance reform.

    Perhaps the way to attack it is to attack term limits first with no grandfathering. That should take some of the incentive away from the career political parasites who do little more than lord it up in DC on the People's nickel. McConnell is an excellent example of that. To be fair and just close your eyes and throw a dart at the Hill and most of the ruling class are like that. They are not - no, nay, never - going to give up the semi-royal deal they have going. The public will have to take it away.

    What's worse it that big bidness, Wall Street and the like are very much opposed to clean, honest and fair elections as well. We don't know how much money from big bidness is filtered through PACs but we must assume that it amounts 10s and 10s of millions. Not to mention foreign money dark money. Anyone reading this who doesn't think foreign money buys American politician and American foreign policy and favorable trade policy speak up. We all know that it happens. That is in no way democracy in action. It is treason in my world.

    We get all hinky because someone voted 12 times in East Jesus, Idaho, but at the same time Saudi Arabia spends countless millions to buy favorable American policy and trade by throwing dark money around and thus buying elections - and Americans say nothing. Israel and god know how many other foreign nations buy politicians and policy and in essence pee on the American political process and Congress with money stuffed in its pockets just grinning and backslapping.

    All the while huge American businesses own Congress on a daily basis. Big business owns Washington. Owns it. Big business damn sure doesn't want any American to have a fair, open and honest government. Campaign reform efforts will have all of the money and power of all of the above working together to stop it.
    Your points can't be more succinct. The more complex government becomes to the electorate, the more powerless they believe they are to remedy self-will-run-riot governments actions.

    I agree with your opinion about term limits w/o a grandfather clause.

    On BBC I recently listened to a former Russian elected official who said that they would purposely create public distractions by starting what appeared to internal fights over thing like gay rights and other unimportant social agendas to "keep from being accountable.

    BINGO!

    On iPhone, but again you touched on a number of important issue that are allowing government to exploit the citizens.

    Thanks....

  5. #25
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    I think we have to use the system to change the system, Dave. We must find a way to convince most Americans who are too damned lazy to vote or too damned lazy to be politically informed that voting the party line is a fool's game. We must force drastic campaign law changes. It will be difficult because we will be fighting big money, big media for the attention of people who have quit listening and who have quit thinking for themselves.

    Billy Sol Estes, a crook from long ago was once asked by a federal crime commission why he didn't steal the huge amount of investment money once and get away free. Estes said, "You can shear a sheep twice a year, but you can only slaughter it once." The very wealthy and the very powerful and their toadie politicians have been shearing the People for decades now. Money and power are very much concentrated among a small percentage of people. There ain't too much more to shear. Corpgov is greedy. They cannot stop themselves. They are going to bankrupt the country. Living in America is going to become very unfun for most people. A major bank or two will fail and the fit will start to hit the shan.

    In short, Americans have the power to stop the train wreck from becoming worse. We won't. We will wait until it is unavoidable. Then things will change.

    I honestly don't believe that you can use this system to change the system. It has been used to benefit a few at the expense of the many. It's like saying, "I want to reform this broken and shattered system, so now let me join in this broken and shattered system." It honestly doesn't make any sense, at least to me.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  6. #26
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The best chance we have at changing the system slowly, without waiting for it to fail or tearing it apart, are term limits and campaign reform. The system isn't as broken as the administering of it is.
    Unfortunately that has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  7. #27
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Unfortunately that has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.
    Probably true, even though Joe Lieberman joined with Senator McCain to lead the fight for campaign reform it never gained any traction.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  8. #28
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I honestly don't believe that you can use this system to change the system. It has been used to benefit a few at the expense of the many. It's like saying, "I want to reform this broken and shattered system, so now let me join in this broken and shattered system." It honestly doesn't make any sense, at least to me.
    It's the only voice we have left. But, I don't believe America will make a choice. We will wait until it all falls apart.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  9. #29
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    It's the only voice we have left. But, I don't believe America will make a choice. We will wait until it all falls apart.
    I vehemently disagree with that. I honestly think that we should just drop out of the system where we can and form alternatives that actually work. We're already doing this like that with media, so why not apply it to other projects as well.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  10. #30
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    Re: Obama's Secret Deals With Saudi Arabia & Qatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I vehemently disagree with that. I honestly think that we should just drop out of the system where we can and form alternatives that actually work. We're already doing this like that with media, so why not apply it to other projects as well.
    You are correct in a sense. We can drop out, but we must still obey the laws and pay the taxes. In some places in America now you actually have to pay taxes to live off the grid. Individually it is an option, en masse it will not be a conscious choice.

    There is an interesting dystopian novel that I've just finished reading. You might like it, Spark by John Twelve Hawks. The novel takes place in the world we will all probably live in within 5 or 6 years.

    Twelve Hawks is quite an interesting guy in his own right. I've been reading him for years. He lives as anonymously as one can. In a very contemporary way he has dropped out. I admire him for his vigilance and for what he has been able to accomplish.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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