View Poll Results: How did the Libertarian Party do

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Thread: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

  1. #61
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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    I sometimes think that the threat posed by third parties (given the slim victory margins in many cases between the 2 main party candidates) are the only reason the 2 main parties haven't gotten worse than they are.
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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I disagree on the appeal. On paper, at least, it is very appealing, and is so across the board. Key aspect: on paper. Most people want to be pretty much left alone. In real life, however, most people also know that as an absolute it is not workable, and hence the lack of real support. It remains appealing to those who use it as a guise to allow them to justify their own selfishness. The "I have mine and I don't want to share" people.
    People, the great majority, they don't want to be "left alone".

    This is the problem with the Libertarian ideology: it's an "I am a rock, I am an island" attitude born from being harmed by others in the past, so its acting-out reaction is to isolate.

    It sees money as its savior from being socially interdependent and business ownership as the goal so one can either be a sole proprietor or hire others to do the managing and be left alone.

    Idealization of money and its rules occurs so as to regulate socioeconomic behavior and thus all interpersonal interaction can be thought of as predictable and rational .. and thereby the Libertarian philosophy deludes itself it can escape being subjected to unpredictable and irrational behavior, a futile delusion.

    The Libertarian philosophy thus over-emphasizes thinking and devalues feeling .. which is why few women find it truly appealing.

    This is why over 90% of Libertarian Party members are male, especially young and emotionally unattached males, as it jibes with that persona.
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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Teeny tiny exception? The first female VP candidate getting an electoral vote is ****ing huge. For that historic moment to be attributed to the LP seems to contradict the idea that they offer little to women. Besides, it's not any less anecdotal than your claim that women don't like the Libertarian Party because we're weak and dependent.
    Yes, in reality, a teeny tiny exception in number, as I clearly presented.

    Your idealization of the Libertarian Party and its mindset causes one to blow things out of proportion, miss the point, etc., all in the fantasized hope that one day the Libertarian Party will be a player.

    It won't.

    Ever.

    Your "we're weak and dependent" is not at all what I was alluding to about women.

    But, that's how your idealization of the Libertarian thinking-over-feeling "freedom, freedom, freedom!" mantra minimizing of security is going to skew it.

    There's nothing "weak and dependent" about feelings and wanting to raise one's family in a safe and secure environment.

    That truly does appeal to married middle-aged and over women with children .. and thus it have value for their male mates, too .. and these are very strong people, strong enough to live in the real world of real emotions and real interdependency and all of the unpredictable irrational aspects of being human.

    That's reality.

    For decades the Libertarian Party has been out there .. and for decades it doesn't ever do much better or much worse -- it's pretty much always just about the same.

    And that's because its appeal, by philosophical definition, is merely to a small segment of the population: single, white, young, childless males.

    Women who find the Libertarian Party attractive are simply very small in percentage amount compared to the percentage amount of men .. and those women who do, well, I would say they're more into thinking than feeling .. and have been hurt in the past by others and are simply looking for money and its "rules" to protect them.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  4. #64
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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, in reality, a teeny tiny exception in number, as I clearly presented.

    Your idealization of the Libertarian Party and its mindset causes one to blow things out of proportion, miss the point, etc., all in the fantasized hope that one day the Libertarian Party will be a player.

    It won't.

    Ever.

    Your "we're weak and dependent" is not at all what I was alluding to about women.

    But, that's how your idealization of the Libertarian thinking-over-feeling "freedom, freedom, freedom!" mantra minimizing of security is going to skew it.

    There's nothing "weak and dependent" about feelings and wanting to raise one's family in a safe and secure environment.

    That truly does appeal to married middle-aged and over women with children .. and thus it have value for their male mates, too .. and these are very strong people, strong enough to live in the real world of real emotions and real interdependency and all of the unpredictable irrational aspects of being human.

    That's reality.

    For decades the Libertarian Party has been out there .. and for decades it doesn't ever do much better or much worse -- it's pretty much always just about the same.

    And that's because its appeal, by philosophical definition, is merely to a small segment of the population: single, white, young, childless males.

    Women who find the Libertarian Party attractive are simply very small in percentage amount compared to the percentage amount of men .. and those women who do, well, I would say they're more into thinking than feeling .. and have been hurt in the past by others and are simply looking for money and its "rules" to protect them.
    First of all, you have provided no backing to your claims about there being next to no women in the LP aside from anecdotal horse**** about women being too weak to embrace freedom.

    Second of all, where did you get the idea that libertarians somehow don't support a safe and secure environment?

    Third, you absolutely were trying to say that women are weak and dependent. That's exactly how I took that...as would most women. I can make choices for myself and take responsibility for those choices as well. Go figure. An independent woman. Your worst nightmare.

    Fourth, don't speak for women. You're a man, I'm a woman. Not to play that card but I'm fairly sure I know a hell of alot more about the thought processes of women than you do. Just saying.

    Fifth, I've seen you rail against the woman's right to choose at least a dozen times on this forum. So don't talk to me about appealing to women.

    Lastly, the LP has grown immensely since it's creation and is easily the third biggest political party in the country. Libertarians rarely win elections, sure, but the same is true of all third parties. Has nothing to do with the philosophy of the party but the habitual voting for the lesser evils. So stop with that crap.
    Last edited by TeleKat; 11-08-14 at 08:35 PM.

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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Since when does a people's government entail less security? Look at countries that have developed heavy-handed governments, and consider what has happened as a result of that: revolution, civil war, genocide, mass-censorship, labor camps and.. mysterious imprisonments without a jury (oh wait... sound familiar?). One would not exactly call these countries "safe and secure environments" to raise a family in. While the US hasn't gotten near as bad as some examples that could be given, we are getting close to a "1984" society. Government is not something that should be trusted. While it's early intentions are good, it soon becomes too powerful and begins feeding itself rather than its people. In the book, "The Giver", the government attempts to create a utopia free from war, pain, hatred, etc. But as a result from this, the people are reduced to something lower than human, void of feeling or compassion. They kill the weak and the old, and those that step out of the status quo for the good of society - at least, how the government views the best option.

    I don't believe a more independent country is a bad thing that results in high crime rates or sweat shops, etc. I also think that once you start thinking that a government can always make you safer than your own will can, than you find yourself stuck under some bureaucrat's thumb. While the LP can sometimes bring forth radical ideas, their entire platform should not be thrown out as irrelevant.

    As for an inability to campaign effectively, resources, while making the job easier, don't always win the ticket. The GOP and Democrats do well because they control the media, and in turn, the people. But the media has become something so flexible that it is very hard for the super-rich to soley control it. Anybody that knows how to work the media (and I guarantee you it is worked by the big two) can sway opinions, and it's no longer a requirement that you own a large newspaper firm. Strategy and efficient use of materials is more important that sheer strength; just look at Sun Tzu. Sun Tzu's army of Wu, a force of about 30,000 in a poor Chinese state, was able to outperform and defeat the powerful army of Chu, a force 10 times the size and with more wealth, because of strategic movement of troops and supplies, leadership, public opinion (which proved extremely important and gained him many allies), and will. Do no give up hope on any party based on it's income. Low income is, while still not entirely irrelevant, not a game-losing blow.

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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Libertarian Election Results 2014

    Link shows their numbers.

    Clearly noone expected them to win any major races but they did ok in a few.
    Based on your expectations for the Libertarian party how do you think they did?


    Unless I've missed some news the Libertarian Party didn't take over the USA-yet.

    Fill us in when it does.

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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Here's why no third party will ever become truly successful: The two parties will adopt any popular aspect in some form or another and "steal their thunder".

    It has happened throughout most of American political history. Third parties almost always form with a limited platform, a "special interest" if you will. They are usually dismissible, but in the event that any part of their platform becomes popular, the two major parties will adopt it in some form. Most people, then feeling satisfied that their concerns are being addressed, abandon the weaker third party and stick with the stronger mainstream party. And why shouldn't they? They're now getting what they want and from a party that can actually pull it off.

    These third parties eventually fade away as their sole purpose for being has been compromised.
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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So how do you explain an 11% approval rating yet a 97% re-election rate? The most obvious explanation is that our political system was designed to shut out third parties.
    Absolutely. Even though GOP and the Dems like to stress their differences, behind closed doors they actively collude to make sure third parties are out of the running during elections. The two big parties will differ on some issues but in the end they are birds of the same feather- they dont want any serious changes to be made and want to keep the status quo.

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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Absolutely. Even though GOP and the Dems like to stress their differences, behind closed doors they actively collude to make sure third parties are out of the running during elections. The two big parties will differ on some issues but in the end they are birds of the same feather- they dont want any serious changes to be made and want to keep the status quo.
    I just don't understand how anybody can be so naive as to think that the only reason third parties don't exist in the US is because they're not "attractive" enough. As if the Republicans and Democrats are attractive at 11%?

    I can't even tell you how many people I've talked to who vote regularly for "the lesser of two evils". Most people have libertarian tendencies, (ie: socially liberal and fiscally conservative), but a third party has never won so people think they never will and that they'll be "throwing away their vote". My own father told me the Libertarians would probably represent him better, but he's so terrified that a democrat will get elected or re-elected if he does, so he votes GOP every time.
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    re: How did the Libertarian Party do this election?[W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Here's why no third party will ever become truly successful: The two parties will adopt any popular aspect in some form or another and "steal their thunder".

    It has happened throughout most of American political history. Third parties almost always form with a limited platform, a "special interest" if you will. They are usually dismissible, but in the event that any part of their platform becomes popular, the two major parties will adopt it in some form. Most people, then feeling satisfied that their concerns are being addressed, abandon the weaker third party and stick with the stronger mainstream party. And why shouldn't they? They're now getting what they want and from a party that can actually pull it off.

    These third parties eventually fade away as their sole purpose for being has been compromised.
    Yes, true.

    Indeed, most policies of the two wing parties (the liberal Democrats and the conservative Republicans) originated as centrist policies that were thus understandably popular .. and after adopting them into their ideology they modified them to morph them into something more at home in their ideology.

    Third parties, like the Greens, Libertarians, Independents, and the like, that are wing-ish by nature, they don't stand a chance for that reason: they're wing parties, and thus will never appeal to the great majority who are centrist by nature.

    But your first sentence here also partly describes why a true centrist party has never been formed that's been a player.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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