View Poll Results: which ones are bigots?

Voters
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  • when Obama opposed SSM

    2 2.38%
  • when Republicans oppose SSM

    1 1.19%
  • both

    34 40.48%
  • neither

    47 55.95%
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Thread: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

  1. #211
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Been over this. No.
    If it iis not okay for someone to use their religious beliefs against interracial couples, interfaith couples, atheist couples or couples of a certain race or religion getting married and to deny them service, then there is no reason that it should be okay to be able to use religious beliefs against a same sex couple (or particularly an opposite sex couple) to deny services to them, even for a wedding. It is all bigotry and all violates public accommodation laws, at least when in particular states that cover those particular classifications.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #212
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Assume a person who hates homosexuals with a vengeance owns a small duplex and occupies one of the units. Can he be forced by law to rent the other unit to homosexuals, such that he's constantly made aware of whatever activities are taking place on the other side of the common wall? After all, he is engaging in business by renting housing for profit. And if he's renting a room in his house, same answer? Does every person who engages in any transaction that involves commerce, to any degree, waive his freedoms of association, speech, and privacy by doing so?

    What about an artist who paints portraits for a living and detests homosexuality as sinful? If a homosexual couple asks him to paint a portrait of them, partially clothed and locked in a fond embrace, can a public accommodation law require him to do it? How about a criminal lawyer who hates homosexuals--should he be considered a public accommodation, so that he has to defend a homosexual client who requests it? If you didn't know, the state public accommodation law at issue in Roberts v. Jaycees applied to "any business." Should only people you and your friends like have constitutional rights? Shouldn't icky haters be punished for daring not to approve of everything good so-called liberals have deemed noble and wonderful?
    Yes, he can be made by law to that or face penalties. If he doesn't want to rent to people he might have an issue with, then he needs not open his duplex up to be rented to the public.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #213
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, he can be made by law to that or face penalties. If he doesn't want to rent to people he might have an issue with, then he needs not open his duplex up to be rented to the public.
    Really? The law of which state? Please tell us how a state law that required the things I mentioned would respect the freedom of association and the freedom of speech, both of which the First Amendment guarantees.

    Are you claiming a state could make lawyers who were sole practitioners public accommodations, so that they could be penalized for declining to take every client in a protected category who wanted their services?

    Are you claiming a state could make artists public accommodations, so that a painter could be penalized if he did not accept commissions from every such client--even ones who demanded to be portrayed in ways the painter considered immoral or disgusting?

    How about a family with children at home whose religion considers homosexuality deeply sinful? Could the homeowners be penalized for refusing to rent a room in their house to a homosexual? Maybe the law should also require them to let the homosexual tenant share their kitchen and bathroom, or host gay parties.

    How about a private book club with a couple dozen members that collects dues? What if it regularly hosts book signings at the members' homes where authors speak and sell their books, with a small percentage of the money going to the club? Wouldn't that make it a "business"? It the state law considered every business" a public accommodation, could the club be penalized for refusing to admit homosexual members?

    I think the Supreme Court's decisions suggest state public accommodation laws do not have the limitless reach you seem to imagine. At some point these laws intrude so far on individual freedoms as to violate constitutional rights.

    Two decisions in particular discuss both the expressive and intimate subtypes of the freedom of association, and how that freedom applies to state public accommodation laws--Roberts v. United States Jaycees and Boy Scouts of America v. Dale.

    The freedom of speech applies to all sorts of creative expression, and it includes an individual's freedom not to be compelled by government to express or sanction ideas he does not agree with. Supreme Court decisions on government-compelled speech include West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, Wooley v. Maynard, and Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins, in particular what Justice Powell said in his concurring opinion.

  4. #214
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Nonsense. You claimed marriage has always between man and woman. You meant that marriage has always been both a heterosexual activity, and a monogamous activity. That is entirely false and refutes the claim that marriage hasn't changed to reflect the values of the time.
    I never claimed that it was always monogamous.

    My claim is that marriage always has been, and can only ever be, between a man and a woman. I have never claimed that a man cannot be married to more than one woman, nor that a woman cannot be married to more than one man. Polygamy—while not practiced nor allowed in our current culture—has a solid Biblical and historical precedent. “Same sex marriage” does not.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  5. #215
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Is Obama more political than Republican politicians?
    Maybe some Republican politicians are actually not staunchly against SSM, but it's a pretty core Republican belief due to the Christian Right. Do you think for example that Santorum doesn't believe in SSM for political reasons? That's the rub, a lot of Republicans expand on their beliefs around SSM and the language is very bigoted.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  6. #216
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Being against SSM is to be a bigot. Fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #217
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    It absolutely is bigotry. Lets just call it what it is. Its bigotry. I


  8. #218
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    It absolutely is bigotry. Lets just call it what it is. Its bigotry. I
    Bigotry. I? Is that a lesser offense from Bigotry. II?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #219
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Maybe some Republican politicians are actually not staunchly against SSM, but it's a pretty core Republican belief due to the Christian Right. Do you think for example that Santorum doesn't believe in SSM for political reasons? That's the rub, a lot of Republicans expand on their beliefs around SSM and the language is very bigoted.
    I have almost no respect for politicians. Few if any of them have core values. My vote is based on how I expect them to vote, and sometimes they lie about that too.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  10. #220
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Depends on WHY they oppose it.

    The actual reason, not what they claim as the reason.

    Basically if it's "because gays are icky and I don't want marriage associated with them", or something equivalent, then yes.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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