View Poll Results: which ones are bigots?

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  • when Obama opposed SSM

    2 2.38%
  • when Republicans oppose SSM

    1 1.19%
  • both

    34 40.48%
  • neither

    47 55.95%
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Thread: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

  1. #181
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Same sex couples are two individuals. It would be no different than if it was a business refusing because they were against interracial marriage or interfaith marriage or atheists getting married

    Businesses have a right to express their feelings on an issue, but not to refuse service to people based on their feelings of that issue when doing so violated anti discrimination laws
    Personally I don't care who gets married. You are mixing individual rights, which I agree should be protected under the law with forcing someone to do work in support of an institution they oppose. If someone doesn't want to work on a gay wedding, why would the gay people want their work and why should the government be able to force them to do work they object to?
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  2. #182
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I understand their reasoning too... I just think that it should be illegal to discriminate against people in a business setting.
    Hey, what's wrong with a little racist aggressive economic warfare, using public resources such as roads and stuff, to help scumbags feel superior?

  3. #183
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    It's only 'not comparable' if you believe racial hatred is not acceptable, but hatred of gays is

    It reveals a lot more about where you're coming from than some analogy you consider disingenuous
    So then it means that if you don't want women to join the Boy Scouts or that original, traditional golf club in Scotland, you hate women? Or are bigoted against women?

    Seems perfectly comparable to me. My only point here is that sometimes there is more to a tradition than bias against someone/some group. It's about a person's perception of the tradition, not necessarily the perception of the group.

    Kids going to school, people riding on buses and eating at counters in restaurants....those are examples of things that are not 'tradition.' (IMO)

    Case in point: many people objecting to SSM said that they supported civil unions for gays. What's the difference here? The difference is that people don't mind the state sanctioning it, even recognize gays have the same right to the same 'things' attached to marriage, just not the 'word,' what the tradition means to them. They don't want to deny gays anything but their perception of a tradition that they apparently hold.
    Last edited by Lursa; 11-05-14 at 05:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #184
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So then it means that if you don't want women to join the Boy Scouts or that original, traditional golf club in Scotland, you hate women? Or are bigoted against women?

    Seems perfectly comparable to me. My only point here is that sometimes there is more to a tradition than bias against someone/some group. It's about a person's perception of the tradition, not necessarily the perception of the group.

    Kids going to school, people riding on buses and eating at counters in restaurants....those are examples of things that are not 'tradition.' (IMO)
    For many, the marriage of blacks and whites violates the tradition of same-race marriage. By your own logic, someone who is against a black man marrying a white woman is not a bigot simply because their view is "traditional."

    The reality is that tradition is completely irrelevant to the definition of bigotry. Something can be both traditional and bigoted. Your argument is completely without merit.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  5. #185
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    For many, the marriage of blacks and whites violates the tradition of same-race marriage. By your own logic, someone who is against a black man marrying a white woman is not a bigot simply because their view is "traditional."

    The reality is that tradition is completely irrelevant to the definition of bigotry. Something can be both traditional and bigoted. Your argument is completely without merit.
    I said none of those things, nor did I even imply them.

    The fact that while something can be both traditional and bigoted, it's also true that something can be traditional and not bigoted, as your admission that you said that not allowing women to join the Boy Scouts/golf club didn't make someone bigoted against women indicates. (Altho it actually could mean exactly that...just not necessarily)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #186
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I said none of those things, nor did I even imply them.
    That's the problem. You won't answer the question. If you don't want me to infer your answer you are going to have to state it yourself. Do you believe a person who is against interracial marriage is a bigot?

    Esp the fact that while something can be both traditional and bigoted, it's also true that something can be traditional and not bigoted, as your admission that you said that not allowing women to join the Boy Scouts/golf club didn't make someone bigoted against women. (Altho it actually could mean exactly that...just not necessarily)
    That was my point. Tradition is irrelevant to bigotry. Yet you are the one who brought up tradition in the first place. Why is a person who is against interracial marriage a bigot, while a person who is against same-sex marriage is not a bigot?
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  7. #187
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My only point here is that sometimes there is more to a tradition than bias against someone/some group. It's about a person's perception of the tradition, not necessarily the perception of the group.
    That is one in the same. If you approve a tradition that deprives certain groups of common dignity, you are opposing that group as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Case in point: many people objecting to SSM said that they supported civil unions for gays. What's the difference here? The difference is that people don't mind the state sanctioning it, even recognize gays have the same right to the same 'things' attached to marriage, just not the 'word,' what the tradition means to them. They don't want to deny gays anything but their perception of a tradition that they apparently hold.
    Yes, they want to deny gays the sense of equality, and civil unions failed because they were comparable to "separate but equal." None of those who supported civil unions but not marriage (of which there were always few) even cared enough to check if these granted the same rights, before making false equivalences like yours. Until DOMA was tossed, **no civil union could even possibly grant the same rights as marriage, in fact about 1000 fewer rights**. Even at the state level, they always operated under different rules (cohabitation, check ins by social workers etc).

    In short, civil unions failed because no one accepted settling for them! They were a ****bag sandwich compromise that pleased no one.
    Last edited by chromium; 11-05-14 at 05:34 PM.

  8. #188
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I said none of those things, nor did I even imply them.

    The fact that while something can be both traditional and bigoted, it's also true that something can be traditional and not bigoted, as your admission that you said that not allowing women to join the Boy Scouts/golf club didn't make someone bigoted against women indicates. (Altho it actually could mean exactly that...just not necessarily)
    Assume a person who hates homosexuals with a vengeance owns a small duplex and occupies one of the units. Can he be forced by law to rent the other unit to homosexuals, such that he's constantly made aware of whatever activities are taking place on the other side of the common wall? After all, he is engaging in business by renting housing for profit. And if he's renting a room in his house, same answer? Does every person who engages in any transaction that involves commerce, to any degree, waive his freedoms of association, speech, and privacy by doing so?

    What about an artist who paints portraits for a living and detests homosexuality as sinful? If a homosexual couple asks him to paint a portrait of them, partially clothed and locked in a fond embrace, can a public accommodation law require him to do it? How about a criminal lawyer who hates homosexuals--should he be considered a public accommodation, so that he has to defend a homosexual client who requests it? If you didn't know, the state public accommodation law at issue in Roberts v. Jaycees applied to "any business." Should only people you and your friends like have constitutional rights? Shouldn't icky haters be punished for daring not to approve of everything good so-called liberals have deemed noble and wonderful?

  9. #189
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    That's the problem. You won't answer the question.
    I run into the same problem...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #190
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Assume a person who hates homosexuals with a vengeance owns a small duplex and occupies one of the units. Can he be forced by law to rent the other unit to homosexuals, such that he's constantly made aware of whatever activities are taking place on the other side of the common wall? After all, he is engaging in business by renting housing for profit. And if he's renting a room in his house, same answer? Does every person who engages in any transaction that involves commerce, to any degree, waive his freedoms of association, speech, and privacy by doing so?

    What about an artist who paints portraits for a living and detests homosexuality as sinful? If a homosexual couple asks him to paint a portrait of them, partially clothed and locked in a fond embrace, can a public accommodation law require him to do it? How about a criminal lawyer who hates homosexuals--should he be considered a public accommodation, so that he has to defend a homosexual client who requests it? If you didn't know, the state public accommodation law at issue in Roberts v. Jaycees applied to "any business." Should only people you and your friends like have constitutional rights? Shouldn't icky haters be punished for daring not to approve of everything good so-called liberals have deemed noble and wonderful?
    They can "not approve" all they like. What they can not do is "discriminate".
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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