View Poll Results: which ones are bigots?

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  • when Obama opposed SSM

    2 2.38%
  • when Republicans oppose SSM

    1 1.19%
  • both

    34 40.48%
  • neither

    47 55.95%
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Thread: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not necessarily, they could just be a dick.
    This qualifies as post of the thread. I wish I could give it 10000 likes.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  2. #132
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not necessarily, they could just be a dick.
    The same could be said about those who seek acceptance by any means necessary.
    Someone with different values from those who agree with SSM doesn't have to be bigoted, but may just have an opinion different from ours.
    Once we learn to truly tolerate those with whom we happen to disagree, we may just be able to live happily side by side.
    I.e., when a baker doesn't want to cater a SSM, he/she could politely and enthusiastically recommend a baker who does, and the SS couple could give it a try, instead of forcing the baker to cater to their wedding.
    Compromise is key, for bigotry isn't reserved for those who oppose SSM, but is also found among those who are SS etc and seek acceptance.
    We must listen to each other and hear, look for what unites us and brings us together. You catch flies with honey, not with complaisant remarks and attitudes or law suits.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    People that are nosey and feel they must stop people from doing things they do not approve of aren't really bigots, they are busybodies.

    I believe there are equal numbers of both parties that are busybodies.
    It's okay to be white

  4. #134
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    The same could be said about those who seek acceptance by any means necessary.
    Someone with different values from those who agree with SSM doesn't have to be bigoted, but may just have an opinion different from ours.
    Once we learn to truly tolerate those with whom we happen to disagree, we may just be able to live happily side by side.
    I.e., when a baker doesn't want to cater a SSM, he/she could politely and enthusiastically recommend a baker who does, and the SS couple could give it a try, instead of forcing the baker to cater to their wedding.
    Compromise is key, for bigotry isn't reserved for those who oppose SSM, but is also found among those who are SS etc and seek acceptance.
    We must listen to each other and hear, look for what unites us and brings us together. You catch flies with honey, not with complaisant remarks and attitudes or law suits.
    No same sex couple has actually tried to force a same sex baker to cater their wedding, only either reported them or sued them for not doing so. In those cases, the couples went to a different baker for their wedding cake. The entire point is though that they shouldn't have had to go and there are laws in place against refusing to do business with someone due to their sexuality or sexes together, just as it is to refuse to do business with someone because of their race, races together, or sex/gender.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #135
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And there are religious objections to women wearing little clothing in public in some religions or not having their hair covered. There are religious objections in some religions to women not being accompanied by a man in public. These are just as "valid" of religious beliefs as objections to same sex marriages. It could easily violate a business owner's personal values just as much to have to serve a woman who wasn't with a man, who was wearing "too little" clothing, or didn't have her hair covered as it does for some to serve gay people.
    These are all governed by individual morals. I'm sure you've seen signs that say no shirt, no shoes, no service. Businesses should, but I realize don't, have the right to not serve people who they morally believe violate the tenants of their religion. Businesses have sent workers home with what they believe to be inappropriate dress. Some banks have not served women whose faces are covered for security reasons not having to do with religion. Understand that I am not personally religious and don't object to anything but I support the right of business people to run their businesses in ways that they feel are morally appropriate as long as they don't discriminate against people based on race, sex or national origin.

    Understand that in the examples you've used a religious person wouldn't have a moral problem with Muslims who dress in ways consistent with their faith, so your example isn't valid. Again, I find nothing morally objectionable to serving gay people. I can understand however why someone would not want to participate in gay marriage, even though those marriages are legal, in some states. I think the market should decide wether those businesses are successful, not trial lawyers or the government.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  6. #136
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No same sex couple has actually tried to force a same sex baker to cater their wedding, only either reported them or sued them for not doing so. In those cases, the couples went to a different baker for their wedding cake. The entire point is though that they shouldn't have had to go and there are laws in place against refusing to do business with someone due to their sexuality or sexes together, just as it is to refuse to do business with someone because of their race, races together, or sex/gender.
    Suing the baker for not catering their wedding is what, exactly? It says to me that: "You do as I please or else".
    A great show of lacking tolerance on their part while expecting tolerance from the baker.

  7. #137
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    These are all governed by individual morals. I'm sure you've seen signs that say no shirt, no shoes, no service. Businesses should, but I realize don't, have the right to not serve people who they morally believe violate the tenants of their religion. Businesses have sent workers home with what they believe to be inappropriate dress. Some banks have not served women whose faces are covered for security reasons not having to do with religion. Understand that I am not personally religious and don't object to anything but I support the right of business people to run their businesses in ways that they feel are morally appropriate as long as they don't discriminate against people based on race, sex or national origin.

    Understand that in the examples you've used a religious person wouldn't have a moral problem with Muslims who dress in ways consistent with their faith, so your example isn't valid. Again, I find nothing morally objectionable to serving gay people. I can understand however why someone would not want to participate in gay marriage, even though those marriages are legal, in some states. I think the market should decide wether those businesses are successful, not trial lawyers or the government.
    No shoes or shirt can be justified by health concerns, but also are not protected against by laws that treat people differently.

    For instance, you cannot force a Muslim owned grocery store to sell you pork products, but that same grocery store also cannot refuse to sell something they do offer to a woman who is not in a burqa or that doesn't have her hair covered, especially if they do not have the same rules for men.

    Dress codes in businesses must be fairly consistent. And a bank that refused to serve a woman because her face was covered must also refuse to serve a man who has the same amount of his face covered. It cannot be inconsistent based on some protected class. Just as a restaurant cannot refuse to seat certain races or certain couplings of people in certain areas due to those reasons, but could refuse to seat people, in general in certain areas or sections of their restaurants, as long as it is a consistent and valid reason.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #138
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Suing the baker for not catering their wedding is what, exactly? It says to me that: "You do as I please or else".
    A great show of lacking tolerance on their part while expecting tolerance from the baker.
    It says that your bigotry against me (and that is bigotry, just as it would be to refuse to bake a cake for a mixed race wedding) caused me hardship in some way, even if it was merely by having to find another baker solely because of something about a group I belong to.

    All it takes is asking yourself if it were a baker who was refusing to bake a cake for a mixed race couple, or Jewish couple, or Asian couple due to claimed religious beliefs against those groups, should they have the same right to sue or not, or at least file a complaint? I think they should, especially in filing a complaint (suing to me would really depend on how far it got before the refusal was made and how much it cost them), because this type of behavior harms society. This is why it should be filing a complaint, and the government handle it from there, with fines, etc.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It says that your bigotry against me (and that is bigotry, just as it would be to refuse to bake a cake for a mixed race wedding) caused me hardship in some way, even if it was merely by having to find another baker solely because of something about a group I belong to.

    All it takes is asking yourself if it were a baker who was refusing to bake a cake for a mixed race couple, or Jewish couple, or Asian couple due to claimed religious beliefs against those groups, should they have the same right to sue or not, or at least file a complaint? I think they should, especially in filing a complaint (suing to me would really depend on how far it got before the refusal was made and how much it cost them), because this type of behavior harms society. This is why it should be filing a complaint, and the government handle it from there, with fines, etc.
    The SSC may cause just as much hardship solely because of his believes/a religious group he may belong to.
    Life is full of disappointments, regardless of sexual preference, ethnicity, color of creed. It is called life. Make the best of it, practice tolerance, aka practice what you preach, and move on.

  10. #140
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    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    The SSC may cause just as much hardship solely because of his believes/a religious group he may belong to.
    Life is full of disappointments, regardless of sexual preference, ethnicity, color of creed. It is called life. Make the best of it, practice tolerance, aka practice what you preach, and move on.
    We have these laws in place for a reason, because there are people who would use their prejudices, their bigotry against certain groups to cause major issues for those people, to essentially try to run them out of town if they could. There may come a time when these laws are outdated, but that isn't yet.

    Just because you believe it is full of problems/disappointments, doesn't mean that should be something we maintain just because. It isn't okay to just accept crappy treatment because some people believe a certain way.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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