View Poll Results: which ones are bigots?

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • when Obama opposed SSM

    2 2.38%
  • when Republicans oppose SSM

    1 1.19%
  • both

    34 40.48%
  • neither

    47 55.95%
Page 11 of 32 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 315

Thread: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

  1. #101
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Both, of course. Yet not everyone remains bigoted in their views forever. I surely would not call Obama a bigot today. Not so for most Republicans, unfortunately.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  2. #102
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,292

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Says the guy who is desperately trying to pretend that this discussion is about anything other than recognition of gay unions by governments. It isn't.



    Utter nonsense. The government is in charge of contract recognition at all levels. That's one of the explicitly laid out of goals of a government. It enforces marriage contracts the same way it does business contracts, adoption contracts, licensing contracts etc. Should the government get out of those too? No. Of course it shouldn't. It's always been involved in them and that's not going to change any time soon. So as it stands, the discussion centers around whether or not the government should recognize gay marriage. It's not going to stop recognizing marriage. Get used to it and stop trying to steer the debate in a direction it never has had any traction in.
    Buh-bye.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #103
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,521

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Both, of course. Yet not everyone remains bigoted in their views forever. I surely would not call Obama a bigot today. Not so for most Republicans, unfortunately.
    Liked for accuracy. The point of this thread is the old I have (imaginary) black friends, I can't be racist forum nonsense displayed by some members on this board. Only the difference is that now, it's pointing to Obama in the hopes that if they hide behind his dated opinion on the matter, they won't be called bigots. That's what this boils down to. A whole bunch of people opposed to SSM for whatever reason, not wanting to admit that their contribution to the anti-SSM agenda is in the same camp as people defined as bigots. It's like when anti-second amendment people declare that they're not against guns because they're scared of them, they're against them because children may get their hands on them. There is absolutely no difference in the results the stances provide or the reasons behind them. In both cases, a right/privilege/benefit is denied.

    Now, there are people who want the government to get out marriage recognition. Why? If anything, the government recognizing marriage has a longer history than one man one woman. Government recognition of marriage has been around for millennia. It has been around for religious and secular reasons (census, legal status, property rights). That's not going to change. There's no point in it changing. If anything, it would be more costly (for both citizens, government and legal scholars) to get the government out of marriage, than to simply maintain the status quo. However, with that on the table, there are people who persist that their ideas on what the government should and shouldn't be involved in is part of the debate. It really isn't. The regulations and laws for marriage have been established and aren't going away, the debate is now about who will get recognized and who won't.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #104
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    30,874

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    IMO there's a difference between objecting to SSM...which is a valued and often religious tradition with a meaningful historic definition for some people...and a prejudice against or hate for gays.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #105
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Liked for accuracy. The point of this thread is the old I have (imaginary) black friends, I can't be racist forum nonsense displayed by some members on this board. Only the difference is that now, it's pointing to Obama in the hopes that if they hide behind his dated opinion on the matter, they won't be called bigots. That's what this boils down to. A whole bunch of people opposed to SSM for whatever reason, not wanting to admit that their contribution to the anti-SSM agenda is in the same camp as people defined as bigots. It's like when anti-second amendment people declare that they're not against guns because they're scared of them, they're against them because children may get their hands on them. There is absolutely no difference in the results the stances provide or the reasons behind them. In both cases, a right/privilege/benefit is denied.

    Now, there are people who want the government to get out marriage recognition. Why? If anything, the government recognizing marriage has a longer history than one man one woman. Government recognition of marriage has been around for millennia. It has been around for religious and secular reasons (census, legal status, property rights). That's not going to change. There's no point in it changing. If anything, it would be more costly (for both citizens, government and legal scholars) to get the government out of marriage, than to simply maintain the status quo. However, with that on the table, there are people who persist that their ideas on what the government should and shouldn't be involved in is part of the debate. It really isn't. The regulations and laws for marriage have been established and aren't going away, the debate is now about who will get recognized and who won't.
    Agreed. I am sympathetic to the view that government should get out of marriage, and if that were something with serious potential of happening I would be all for it. In the mean time, however, expanding marriage rights to same-sex couples is the best choice. As much as I would love government out of marriage, I have the common sense to know that isn't something that is going to change. In fact, anyone who supports getting government out of marriage but then votes against same-sex marriage is, in my opinion, just using the "get government out of marriage" argument as a cover for simply being against same-sex marriage. Those who truly think the best option is to get government out of marriage would not have a problem with expanding marriage to same-sex couples.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  6. #106
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    30,244

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Liked for accuracy. The point of this thread is the old I have (imaginary) black friends, I can't be racist forum nonsense displayed by some members on this board. Only the difference is that now, it's pointing to Obama in the hopes that if they hide behind his dated opinion on the matter, they won't be called bigots. That's what this boils down to. A whole bunch of people opposed to SSM for whatever reason, not wanting to admit that their contribution to the anti-SSM agenda is in the same camp as people defined as bigots. It's like when anti-second amendment people declare that they're not against guns because they're scared of them, they're against them because children may get their hands on them. There is absolutely no difference in the results the stances provide or the reasons behind them. In both cases, a right/privilege/benefit is denied.

    Now, there are people who want the government to get out marriage recognition. Why? If anything, the government recognizing marriage has a longer history than one man one woman. Government recognition of marriage has been around for millennia. It has been around for religious and secular reasons (census, legal status, property rights). That's not going to change. There's no point in it changing. If anything, it would be more costly (for both citizens, government and legal scholars) to get the government out of marriage, than to simply maintain the status quo. However, with that on the table, there are people who persist that their ideas on what the government should and shouldn't be involved in is part of the debate. It really isn't. The regulations and laws for marriage have been established and aren't going away, the debate is now about who will get recognized and who won't.
    Unfortunately, you have a lot of people, mostly Libertarians, who have little grasp on reality, they want things that are not realistic to want, as a means of getting around the discussion instead of actually taking part in the discussion. Given that there is no chance in hell whatsoever of the government getting out of the marriage business, they'd rather just not deal with that fact, they'd rather pretend that they can play both sides of the fence and not have to deal with actual marriage equality, they want to pretend that anyone is going to take them seriously about the government not being involved in marriage so they don't have to be criticized for being against gay marriage.

    And they also think everyone doesn't see straight through their nonsense.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  7. #107
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    IMO there's a difference between objecting to SSM...which is a valued and often religious tradition with a historic definition for some people...and a prejudice against or hate for gays.
    Holding onto a tradition of prejudice is bigoted regardless of how valued, religious, or historical that tradition may be.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  8. #108
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,521

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Agreed. I am sympathetic to the view that government should get out of marriage, and if that were something with serious potential of happening I would be all for it. In the mean time, however, expanding marriage rights to same-sex couples is the best choice. As much as I would love government out of marriage, I have the common sense to know that isn't something that is going to change. In fact, anyone who supports getting government out of marriage but then votes against same-sex marriage is, in my opinion, just using the "get government out of marriage" argument as a cover for simply being against same-sex marriage. Those who truly think the best option is to get government out of marriage would not have a problem with expanding marriage to same-sex couples.
    Stop it, if you point out that the government getting out of marriage is not realistic and won't happen anytime soon, people get angrier. They get angrier if you point out that their actions against the government's role in marriage have the same effect as simply being opposed to SSM for religious reasons. Nobody likes being called a bigot.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #109
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Unfortunately, you have a lot of people, mostly Libertarians, who have little grasp on reality, they want things that are not realistic to want, as a means of getting around the discussion instead of actually taking part in the discussion. Given that there is no chance in hell whatsoever of the government getting out of the marriage business, they'd rather just not deal with that fact, they'd rather pretend that they can play both sides of the fence and not have to deal with actual marriage equality, they want to pretend that anyone is going to take them seriously about the government not being involved in marriage so they don't have to be criticized for being against gay marriage.

    And they also think everyone doesn't see straight through their nonsense.
    A sincere libertarian would support same-sex marriage as the second best option to getting government out of marriage. The problem is a lot of tea party conservatives think they are libertarians (when they are not) and are adopting libertarian arguments as a cover for their own bigotry.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  10. #110
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    30,874

    Re: Is it bigotry when someone opposes SSM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Holding onto a tradition of prejudice is bigoted regardless of how valued, religious, or historical that tradition may be.
    I disagree but not by much. I see a difference in how someone thinks and if they actually act against it, like voting for example. Just because they 'personally' hold that tradition a certain way, view it 'their way,' doesn't mean they are bigoted against others.

    If someone disagrees with girls joining the Boy Scouts, are they bigoted against women?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Page 11 of 32 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •