Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Young lower class black or latino guys, frat boys (of any race), or etca, yes.

The simple fact of the matter is that you're dealing with groups that have been culturally conditioned towards crass and offensive behavior there.

If you're hanging out in an area where there happen to be a lot of them, crass and offensive behavior is typically exactly what you'll get.

You do realize that we have many lower economic class young latinos and blacks here, and even people that have been or are in a frat, right?

Who are you to paint them all as "culturally conditioned towards crass and offensive behavior"? They've no greater odds of being an asshole than the next person.

It's amazing you think you can insult huge swaths of the population, right here at this website.

What the hell?

joG · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Apparently, New Yorkers are just kind of creepy and impolite people in general.

Who'd have thunk it, huh? :lol:

Edit:

My bad. I forgot to add the poll. I'll see if a mod can't fix it. lol

It is a terrific problem. But that is just because I'm so cool.

:shrug:

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
You do realize that we have many lower economic class young latinos and blacks here, and even people that have been or are in a frat, right?

And? Are you really going to deny that many of the trappings of all of these cultures (and really, male youth culture in general) are aggressively over-sexed, and misogynistic?

Who are you to paint them all as "culturally conditioned towards crass and offensive behavior"? They've no greater odds of being an asshole than the next person.

It's hardly my fault that you don't like hearing the truth. :shrug:

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Not anymore so than black solidarity, or any other ethnic identity.

The NAACP is as racist as the KKK?

Again, why do you view whites as being unique in this regard?

I view the majority power as unique in this regard. Majority power solidarity is inherently repressive of other contributions. Black solidarity in no way impacts the opportunities of whites at the national scale.

Says who?

You think white is an ethnicity? Holy mackerel!

No, I mean my society as a whole.

If that means the US, then you should understand fighting sexism and racism is good for your society.

I simply happen to prefer it as it exists now, as compared to the souped up monstrosity you seem so intent on creating.

The "souped up monstrosity" of equal rights?

Says the man whose entire existence basically centers around atoning for the "evils" of what he perceives as being the white male's "sexist" and "racist" world. :lamo

Nonsense. I've no atonement. I'm just against sexism and racism.

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
And? Are you really going to deny that many of the trappings of all of these cultures (and really, male youth culture in general) are aggressively over-sexed, and misogynistic?

There is no such thing as "male youth culture". You don't know what culture nor ethnicity means? You just add "culture" to any group based on physical traits you wish to disparage.

It's hardly my fault that you don't like hearing the truth. :shrug:

Oh, yeah, the old "the truth hurts" routine. Real impressive.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
The NAACP is as racist as the KKK?

The Nation of Islam certainly is.

I view the majority power as unique in this regard. Majority power solidarity is inherently repressive of other contributions. Black solidarity in no way impacts the opportunities of whites at the national scale.

So, again, you believe that whites - in particular - basically need to be "handicapped" on a socio-political basis, by being encouraged to disassociate with one another, just so competing groups can be built up in their place.

Ummm... Thank you for confirming everything I've been saying all along, I guess? :lol:

You think white is an ethnicity? Holy mackerel!

Is there any reason it's not, where "black" is?

If that means the US, then you should understand fighting sexism and racism is good for your society.

Again, your definitions of both terms are insane.

The "souped up monstrosity" of equal rights?

Any society in which one group has to be deliberately hobbled just so other groups can take its place is not "equal."

Nonsense. I've no atonement. I'm just against sexism and racism.

Whatever you say, Eco. Whatever you say... :roll:

Jango · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
White solidarity is not racist? Wow.

When you say "his society" you mean white people and not the US or Western world, right?

"In good times we could be best friends and in the worst of times we could be best friends, but there is such a time that we can't be friends at all."

Master Gunnery Sergeant at Fort Sill, a crusty black man from Louisiana.

He once had a confrontation with a female officer:

"Excuse me Master Gunnery Sergeant, why didn't you salute me?"
"Well, cause ders two tings I don't salute in my Marine Corps. and that'd be butterballs and bitches, and you so happen to fall somewhere in that bad mix."

Then he continued walking leaving her standing there jaw on the ground.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
There is no such thing as "male youth culture".

I'm quite sure that there is.

Oh, yeah, the old "the truth hurts" routine. Real impressive.

It's true. :shrug:

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
The Nation of Islam certainly is.

You said any organization based on race or ethnicity is just as racist as white solidarity. Are you now abandoning that BS?

So, again, you believe that whites - in particular - basically need to be "handicapped" on a socio-political basis, by being encouraged to disassociate with one another, just so competing groups can be built up in their place.

Not allowing the majority to exert repression against minorities is handicapping the majority? Wow.

Is there any reason it's not, where "black" is?

Dude, white is not an ethnicity. This is too stupid.

Again, your definitions of both terms are insane.

Yeah, every sociology department in the country and Western world is insane. Whatever protects your preconceived notions and prejudices.

Any society in which one group has to be deliberately hobbled just so other groups can take its place is not "equal."

No group is taking anyone's place. The plan of feminists and civil rights activists is not to create a new oppressive majority, it's to eliminate the existence of oppression. How can you not understand this?

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
I'm quite sure that there is.

And you also think white is an ethnicity. Have you never had a single class in sociology? You don't understand what culture nor ethnicity means. One cannot base a culture on physical attributes, it's established by common traditions and other social attributes. Basing cultural delineation on physical characteristics is BS. You're just adding "culture" to whatever physical group you want to slander.

Is there also a "woman culture"? Pft

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
You said any organization based on race or ethnicity is just as racist as white solidarity. Are you now abandoning that BS?

No, that was your argument. Solidarity is neither "racist," nor non-racist in and of itself. It depends upon what one does with it.

You are the one pushing a blatant double standard here, essentially saying that solidarity is only "racist" when whites do it, and "okay" for everyone else.

It doesn't work that way, Eco. You're simply pushing your usual nonsensical agenda.

Not allowing the majority to exert repression against minorities is handicapping the majority? Wow.

Deliberately going out of one's way to destroy the collective identity of only the majority group in some misguided attempt to "cut them down to size" for minorities certainly is.

You are essentially "repressing" one group in a harebrained attempt to "liberate" another.

Dude, white is not an ethnicity

I say it is. Prove me wrong.

Why are "black" and "latino" ethnicities, where "white" is not?

Yeah, every sociology department in the country and Western world is insane.

You do not speak for sociology.

Don't get me wrong, the field has more than it's share of flaws. This madness, however, is unique to you and a handful of ideological firebrands alone.

No group is taking anyone's place. The plan of feminists and civil rights activists is not to create a new oppressive majority, it's to eliminate the existence of such a thing. How can you not understand this?

Nonsense. There will ALWAYS be a "dominant" player. If there's not, the strongest contenders will simply continue to struggle amongst themselves to attain that status.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
And you also think white is an ethnicity. Have you never had a single class in sociology? You don't understand what culture nor ethnicity means. One cannot base a culture on physical attributes, it's established by common traditions and other social attributes. Basing cultural delineation on physical characteristics is BS. You're just adding "culture" to whatever physical group you want to slander.

Good thing I'm not doing that then.

"Male culture" is based off of shared media, attitudes, and traditions.

Is there also a "woman culture"?

Absolutely.

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Don't get me wrong, the field has more than it's share of flaws. This madness, however, is unique to you and a handful of ideological firebrands alone.

Wrong. It's the common understanding of sociologists. Your lack of understanding and education doesn't change this.

Nonsense. There will ALWAYS be a "dominant" player.

Oh please. Spare us the crystal ball sexism and racism apologism.

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Good thing I'm not doing that then.

"Male culture" is based off of shared media, attitudes, and traditions.

Male culture!

:lamo

What about gay guys? Are they part of your "male culture".

Muhammed · Nov 2, 2014

Usually I take it as a compliment. The only time it bothers me is when girls say stuff in public when I'm with my wife. She just had our baby a couple months ago and was having some psychological self-image body issues when she got a really big pregnancy belly. It seemed like she wanted to gouge the eyes out of any girl that even looked at me.

Since she's lost most of the pregnancy fat and is a ten again on practically anyone's scale, it doesn't bother her so much when girls make comments about me. She knows she's hotter than any woman out there. And nobody is ever going to steal me away from her.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
Wrong. It's the common understanding of sociologists. Your lack of understanding and education doesn't change this.

Sure it is, Eco. Sure it is. :lamo

Oh please. Spare us the crystal ball sexism and racism apologism.

It's called "Realism." I'd look into it if I were you.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
Male culture!

:lamo

What about gay guys?

Would be "gay culture."

None of these are controversial claims here, Eco.

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Would be "gay culture."

None of these are controversial claims here, Eco.

So, gay males are not part of male culture. Fantastic. You define a culture by physical characteristics and then exclude some people. How ridiculous.

Can you not see that you are just adding "culture" to make it look like you're not judging physical attributes?

One more time: culture is not based on physical attributes, as you just admitted.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
So, gay males are not part of male culture. Fantastic. You define a culture by physical characteristics and then exclude some people. How ridiculous.

They are not a part of the young, male, heterosexual culture to which I was referring, no.

That culture can be further divided along racial lines, and with regard to different social niches (jocks, geeks, frat boys, and etca).

Again, this isn't controversial. An alleged "sociologist" should know this.

One more time: culture is not based on physical attributes, as you just admitted.

I never said that it was.

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
They are not a part of the young, male, heterosexual culture to which I was referring, no.

So young male latinos and blacks that are gay do not share in the "young latino" or "young black" culture?

That culture can be further divided along racial lines, and with regard to different social niches (jocks, geeks, frat boys, and etca).

Culture is not based on race. The black culture of America is from a time when blacks were segregated - that's why it's a culture. Not because people are black - because they were segregated by race. In such a situation, a culture does emerge. There is no modern "black culture", as blacks are no longer segregated. Rap culture, or inner city culture, is not "black culture".

Again, this isn't controversial.

Controversial? It's flat-out wrong and idiotic.

You claim there is a male culture but gay males are not included. You claim there is a black culture but some blacks are not included. That's BS; the internal conflicts therein make this obvious.

One cannot delineate a culture based on physical characteristics. End of story.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
So young male latinos and blacks that are gay do not share in the "young latino" or "young black" culture?

By and large? No.

They have different interests, and often tend to be alienated from the cultural mainstream due to their orientation.

Culture is not based on race. The black culture of America is from a time when blacks were segregated - that's why it's a culture.

Oh, so you mean that you actually accept that there IS such a thing as "black culture" now? :lol:

Well... That's good to know.

There is no modern "black culture", as blacks are no longer segregated. Rap culture, or inner city culture, is not "black culture".

Ummm... No. Large portions of the black population are still segregated both by choice, and on a de facto economic basis.

Many others have made the deliberate choice to maintain an ethnic culture distinct from the "mainstream" even in spite of integration as well.

For that reason, a distinct "black culture" can still be said to exist.

Controversial? It's flat-out wrong and idiotic.

The existence of a young male subculture is "idiotic?" :screwy

You claim there is a male culture but gay males are not included.

Because gay males and the heterosexual variety behave differently, and therefore tend to gather apart from one another.

You claim there is a black culture but some blacks are not included.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

One cannot delineate a culture based on physical characteristics. End of story.

Good thing no one's doing that then. :shrug:

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Oh, so you mean that you actually accept that there IS such a thing as "black culture" now? :lol:

Not "is" - was. And it was based on segregation by race and not that they were black. They could have been any race and a culture would have emerged due to segregation. It just happens it was blacks so it's referred to as black culture.

Ummm... No. Large portions of the black population are still segregated both by choice, and on a de facto economic basis.

Are you seriously equating the US today with segregation?

For that reason, a distinct "black culture" can still be said to exist.

No, it can't, because it is not inclusive of all black people. During segregation, it was.

The existence of young male subculture is "idiotic?"

The claim of such is. Kids do not create their own separate and distinct culture. They are subjects, without any real power, of an actual culture.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

ecofarm said:
Are you seriously equating the US today with segregation?

Are you seriously denying that many blacks and whites still tend to live primarily within communities dominated by their own race, rather than mixed between the two?

No, it can't, because it is not inclusive of all black people. During segregation, it was.

It was never "inclusive of all black people," even by your own logic. The whole country was not segregated.

Again, these are all things which a supposed "sociologist" should know.

The claim of such is. Kids do not create their own culture. They are subjects, without any real power, of an actual culture.

Sure they do. They choose what products to consume and what fads to adopt just as anyone else does.

Besides, we are not talking about "kids," but young adults.

Gathomas88 · Nov 2, 2014

In any case, we can carry on with the "Ecofarm's Greatest Hits" playlist later. I'm going to bed. :lol:

ecofarm · Nov 2, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
Are you seriously denying that many blacks and whites still tend to live primarily within communities dominated by their own race, rather than mixed between the two?

You ARE equating modern America with segregation! Mindless nonsense.

It was never "inclusive of all black people," even by your own logic. The whole country was not segregated.

Oh please. Is this more apologism for segregation by claiming it's the same as today?

Sure they do. They choose what products to consume and what fads to adopt just as anyone else does.

Kids don't buy their own stuff.

Besides, we are not talking about "kids," but young adults.

Young adults and young males are not the same thing.

Now you are dividing a generational contribution to a culture by sex and calling each a distinct culture in and of itself? Nonsense. By your "rationale", every individual in the country has their own culture.

Look, when you learn what culture and ethnicity mean, let me know.

Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

Is street harassment of men an issue?

Yes

No

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