View Poll Results: Is street harassment of men an issue?

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Thread: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

  1. #31
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Well... To be fair, most "random guys" don't look like the one in the OP video either.

    A major problem with your idea here is that the attention in question here isn't always unwanted. Some women (and men) actually enjoy it, and will respond positively to such advances.

    No offense, but in that regard, I think your definition of "harassment" is rather broad.

    For example, I'm an introvert, somewhat uptight by nature, and was taught against making a spectacle of myself. As such, I'd never even dream of "catcalling."

    However, I have, while out on the town in a state of buzzed over-confidence, approached strange women on a whim when they particularly struck my fancy. Now, granted, it didn't work out very well for me, so I quickly learned not to do so. I still wouldn't call that "harassment" though.

    I introduced myself, made clear my interest, and asked for their number. When they indicated that they were not interested, I thanked them for their time, and went on my merry way.

    I figured, "nothing ventured, nothing gained."
    So you're taking out the catcalling part you talked about in order to totally change the context of your original question and accuse me of being overly sensitive. Not bothering...

    This is anecdotal, and therefore unverifiable one way or the other.

    Needless to say, however, I am skeptical that the average young woman will run across many suburban soccer dads prone to "holla at a bitch" in the same way that some other sub-cultural groups would.
    It's very simple. People will try to get away with what their social group permits, or encourages. In my experience, that isn't correlated to money. Lower class cultures can be good or bad, upper class cultures can be good or bad. In the 'burbs, seems to be mostly young guys.

    What, you mean they wouldn't say what your stereotyped concept of a poor person, and thus inherently a black person, would say? Why don't you just say that instead of alluding to it?
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-02-14 at 02:03 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    So you're taking out the catcalling part you talked about in order to totally change the context of your original question and accuse me of being overly sensitive. Not bothering...
    You were the one who defined "harassment" as being (and I'm editing this down to just the parts relevant to this particular accusation)...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    anything obviously objectifying, like the person is walking around for your benefit. Anything sexual, obviously.

    You also said that girls giving me their numbers while I was on the job counted as "harassment."

    Well... When I swaggered up to some college girl on the street and asked for her number, for basically no other reason than that she happened to be kind of cute (and have easily the best ass I'd seen all night, wrapped up in 'painted on' skin tight white jeans ), what else could you possibly describe that as being other than what you listed above?

    Frankly, if that's what you mean when you talk about "harassment," I'm not sure if I agree with your definition of the term in the first place.

    It's very simple. People will try to get away with what their social group permits, or encourages. In my experience, that isn't correlated to money. Lower class cultures can be good or bad, upper class cultures can be good or bad. In the 'burbs, seems to be mostly young guys.

    What, you mean they wouldn't say what your stereotyped concept of a black person would say? Why don't you just say that instead of alluding to it?
    Young lower class black or latino guys, frat boys (of any race), or etca, yes.

    The simple fact of the matter is that you're dealing with groups that have been culturally conditioned towards crass and offensive behavior there.

    If you're hanging out in an area where there happen to be a lot of them, crass and offensive behavior is typically exactly what you'll get.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 02:14 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Young black or latino guys, frat boys (of any race), or etca, yes.

    The simple fact of the matter is that you're dealing with groups that have been culturally conditioned towards crass and offensive behavior there.

    If you're hanging out in an area where there happen to be a lot of them, crass and offensive behavior is typically exactly what you'll get.

    Wow... all young blacks and latinos, and rich popular guys. Who would have guessed.

    My frat was entirely respectful of women, as were the others except for one. We didn't tolerate any harassment or even behavior unbecoming the frat. You've never actually been in a frat, have you? I bet you don't know anything about young blacks or latinos either.

  4. #34
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    You were the one who defined "harassment" as being (and I'm editing this down to just the parts relevant to this particular accusation)...


    Well... When I swagger up to some college girl on the street and ask for her number, for basically no other reason than that she happens to be kind of cute (and have easily the best ass I've seen all night, wrapped up in 'painted on' skin tight white jeans ), what else could you describe that as being other than the above?

    Yes, and to most women that is really unacceptable, thus your lack of a success rate. Yet somehow you think this is still sometimes ok, because "some girls like it" -- never mind that you've never met any.

    Young black or latino guys, frat boys (of any race), or etca, yes.

    The simple fact of the matter is that you're dealing with groups that have been culturally conditioned towards crass and offensive behavior there.
    So... all minorities, and college guys, are crass, offensive, bad people.

    Right. Because that sounds so much better than if you were only saying bigoted things about just black people.

    Cloistered, older white men are teh bestest. No such thing as women being harassed, especially when you're doing it. Or racism, especially when you're doing it.

    Everything's normal in Gathland. Going to bed now. Have fun.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-02-14 at 02:21 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Wow... all young blacks and latinos, and rich popular guys. Who would have guessed.

    My frat was entirely respectful of women, as were the others except for one . We didn't tolerate any harassment or even behavior unbecoming the frat. You've never actually been in a frat, have you? I bet you don't know anything about young blacks or latinos either.
    Sure it was.

    In any case, the fact of the matter is that you're talking about groups whose primary cultural exports tend to be media along the lines of this...



    This...



    And this...



    If you want to argue that the blatant "sexism" on display in all of those subcultures contributes to the problem of "catcalling," "street harassment," and generally crude and offensive behavior on the part of young men, I'd absolutely agree with you.

    However, I would warn you that the "society" it speaks ill of really isn't mine in the first place.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 02:35 AM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I actually quite like New Yorkers. I'd say I actually get harassed less there than in Minneapolis.

    Anyway, there is a street harassment issue for men, but I have never heard of it in the way it's being portrayed here, which is to say dominantly in the context of objectifying sexual harassment.

    Often, for men, street harassment takes the form of basically hate speech. It's particularly targeted at men who fit someone's stereotype of "gay" or "queer" (whether they consider themselves such or not). About a quarter of men report street harassment. That's obviously much higher than the percentage who actually are gay or queer. I haven't seen an exact break-down of how much harassment of men is of the hate speech variety, and how much is other types of harassment.

    National Street Harassment Report- Stop Street Harassment

    I admit I'm rather skeptical of your video. He's basically contending that men get three times as much street harassment as women... despite the fact that it's still at least half if not mostly guys doing it. I'm sorry, but I really don't buy that.
    Look, harassment happens. Just after I got out of the service I was working at a country club waiting tables and on more than one occasion I had one of the bridge ladies grab my junk. Hell, the woman who hired me admitted that it was my ass that got me the job. It was actually kind of cool to have women turn to take a look from time to time.


    Frankly, I miss it

  7. #37
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Sure it was.
    You've never even been in a frat. What would you know about them? You're just jealous, like those Che T-shirt kids. You also don't know crap about young latinos or blacks, so spare us your vitriol towards races as well, thanks.

  8. #38
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yes, and to most women that is really unacceptable, thus your lack of a success rate. Yet somehow you think this is still sometimes ok, because "some girls like it"
    Sooo... Again, to be clear here, you are, in essence, saying that taking any kind of spontaneous sexual initiative is basically a form of "harassment," even if you're polite and take "no" for an answer?

    Seriously?

    -- never mind that you've never met any.
    I've met plenty. The "hook up culture" basically runs on the premise I mentioned above.

    i.e.

    Someone looks attractive, and so you try to have sex with them.

    Hell! It's the guiding principle behind all human coupling in general to at least some extent!

    So... all minorities, and college guys, are crass, offensive, bad people.
    No, though you cannot deny that there are some rather troubling trends in each culture which only serve to make certain offensive behaviors more likely.

    As I said to Eco, just look at the media which tends to be aimed at these groups, and the kind of worldviews it encourages.

    Edit:

    For that matter, since when are all men in college "frat boys?"
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 02:56 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You've never even been in a frat. What would you know about them? You're just jealous, like those Che T-shirt kids. You also don't know crap about young latinos or blacks, so spare us your vitriol towards races as well, thanks.
    I've known plenty of frat boys, and I've seen the way they tend to behave in public, especially while intoxicated.

    Let's just say that I'm not exactly surprised to hear that you were one of their number, and leave things at that.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 02:57 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Or, you know... It could simply be the case that neither group are "victims" and this whole thing is really little more than a lot of artificially manufactured outrage about nothing.

    But it is not "artificially manufactured outrage about nothing." Women have a harder go at things like that then we do. Women and certainly young girls are victims when they are harassed, and honestly, it bothers me more when women get mistreated then when men do. I suppose I was just raised to treat women better than myself is all I'm saying.

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