View Poll Results: Is street harassment of men an issue?

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Thread: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

  1. #21
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yeah, there's no sexism in the US. No racism against blacks either, right? Those things are just a scam invented to repress white straight men, right?
    It's called "perspective," Eco. There are, quite frankly, bigger fish to fry than a couple of rude comments made by a tiny minority of classless dick heads on city streets.

    Frankly, what are you even suggesting be done to try and stop them?

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    It's called "perspective," Eco. There are, quite frankly, bigger fish to fry than a couple of rude comments made by a tiny minority of classless dick heads on city streets.
    So, sexism doesn't exist and contribute to the treatment of women in society?


    Frankly, what are you even suggesting be done to try and stop them?
    Prevent their creation by addressing the impacts of sexism and sexism itself on society, as opposed to pretending sexism doesn't exist and contribute to the problem.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    So, sexism doesn't exist and contribute to the treatment of women in society?
    Was it "sexist" when the women and gay men in the OP's video harassed that man?

    Was that "society's" fault?

    Prevent their creation by addressing the impacts of sexism and sexism itself on society, as opposed to pretending sexism doesn't exist and contribute to the problem.
    This is word salad.

    How are you going to "prevent sexism?"
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 01:16 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Was it "sexist" when the women and gay men in the OP's video harassed that man?

    Was that "society's" fault?
    Like racism, sexism is a social construct requiring systemic privilege. Of course, any individual is capable of gender bigotry.

    Sexism contributes to the mistreatment of women in the US. Do you deny this?

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, ok. I have my eye cocked a bit at this video nonetheless, if for no other reason than that it doesn't reflect how men usually are harassed either, along with the other weirdness.
    How would you even know how men are "usually" harassed?

    Also, it is worth noting that most of the harassment was coming from gay men. NYC is a rather more "progressive" area that most of the rest of the country, so it might very well be the case that they feel comfortable being a bit more brazen there than is typical in the average US city.

    How am I defining it? A few things: pretty much all catcalls, anything obviously objectifying, like the person is walking around for your benefit. Anything sexual, obviously. Anything homophobic.
    Okay, so was I "harassed" when giggling teenage girls used to shout things at me from the windows of passing cars in highschool?

    Was I "harassed" when they came up to me and gave me their numbers?

    After all, I was simply doing my job. I wasn't walking around for their benefit, or asking to be "objectified."

    For that matter, has it occurred to you that at least a few of those men might simply be trying to get your attention with non-nefarious motivations at heart?

    Granted, they're going about it all the wrong way. However, I really don't think this is as big of a deal as you're making out.

    Even if nothing is said, most people are going to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex when they walk by. They will also tend to "objectify" sexually appealing aspects of that individual's anatomy. Quite frankly, I wouldn't say that there is anything wrong with that on an intrinsic basis.

    The major issue here is one of approach.

    Disagree about your little "she's asking for it" thing too. "Seediness" has nothing to do with it either. Like all predatory-type people, it has nothing to do with what you're doing, except insofar as they think you're afraid of them, which is what they enjoy. In reality, all the things you would think would reduce harassment seem to increase it. For example, dressing down? Increases harassment, in my consistent experience. Staying to the main street? More harassment, especially from cars.
    Would you imagine that you're just as likely to experience street harassment in an upper scale suburban neighborhood as in a lower class inner city area?
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 01:21 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Like racism, sexism is a social construct requiring systemic privilege. Of course, any individual is capable of gender bigotry.

    Sexism contributes to the mistreatment of women in the US. Do you deny this?
    Ah... I see. More self-serving ideological hypocrisy.

    "Harassment and discrimination are only wrong when they happen to groups I care about, everyone else should just shut up and take it, because I think they deserve to be taken down a peg."
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 01:20 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    How would you even know how men are "usually" harassed?

    Also, it is worth noting that most of the harassment was coming from gay men. NYC is a rather more "progressive" area that most of the rest of the country, so it might very well be the case that they feel comfortable being a bit more brazen there than is typical in the average US city.
    I explained that; it seems to most often take the form of homophobia or queer/trans-phobia.

    Minneapolis is the most gay-friendly city in the country, and a deep, dark shade of blue. We don't have a lot of gay-on-random-man harassment here, and I haven't heard of it in any substantial amount elsewhere. Gay people know what it's like to feel marginalized.

    Okay, so was I "harassed" when teenage girls used to shout things at me out of the windows of passing cars in highschool?

    Was I "harassed" when they came up to me and gave me their numbers?

    After all, I was simply doing my job. I wasn't walking around for their benefit, or asking to be "objectified."

    Has it occurred to you that at least a few of those men might simply be trying to get your attention with non-nefarious motivations at heart?

    Granted, they're going about it all the wrong way. However, I really don't think this is as big of a deal as you're making out.

    Even if nothing is said, most people are going to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex when they walk by, and "objectify" appealing aspects of their anatomy. I, quite frankly, wouldn't say that there is anything wrong with it.

    The major issue here is one of approach.
    Yes, that's harassment. I imagine if it was something that had happened only a couple times, I might feel similarly to you, just like I do when any random and uncommon display of rudeness happens -- that doesn't bug me and it might even be funny. It's a one-off occurrence.

    But that's not how it is for women, or certain men. It's the commonness of it that is the problem, and it indicates a social problem in that there are really quite a lot of men who feel it's acceptable to do. It's not just some random dumb teen, or some tweaker guy. There are enough of them that it might happen literally every time you go outside. That's a systemic social problem, not random rude people.

    Noticing people versus forcing yourself into their world are two very different things.

    Would you imagine that you're just as likely to experience street harassment in an upper scale suburban neighborhood as in a lower class inner city area?
    Yes. Actually, an upper scale suburban neighborhood were where my earliest experiences with harassment happened, and also some of my worst to this day.

    A certain entitled mindset common to such neighborhoods can make some people feel much more empowered to try to degrade others.

    You know about my busker friends from back in the day and all that, right? A couple of them were actually making very good money, but a lot of them were poor, a few were homeless, etc. Not a rich crowd overall. And certainly a very city crowd.

    I have never experienced less harassment in my life. Not even once, in an entire 9 months.

    It depends entirely on the social ethos, which have nothing to do with money.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-02-14 at 01:30 AM.

  8. #28
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    "Harassment and discrimination are only wrong when they happen to groups I care about, everyone else should just shut up and take it, because I think they deserve to be taken down a peg."
    Who said that? I said an ism is a social construct and distinct from an individual act unsupported by systemic privilege.

    Of course, gender bigotry is always to be condemned, but that doesn't remove my ability to assess an ism from a social perspective.

    For all the complaints about the "race card" and the "sexism card", why is it that you constantly claim white straight men are victims?

  9. #29
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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I explained that; it seems to most often take the form of homophobia or queer/trans-phobia.

    Minneapolis is the most gay-friendly city in the country, and a deep, dark shade of blue. We don't have a lot of gay-on-random-man harassment here, and I haven't heard of it in any substantial amount elsewhere. Gay people know what it's like to feel marginalized.
    Well... To be fair, most "random guys" don't look like the one in the OP video either.

    Yes, that's harassment. I imagine if it was something that had happened only a couple times, I might feel similarly to you, just like I do when any random and uncommon display of rudeness happens -- that doesn't bug me and it might even be funny. It's a one-off occurrence.

    But that's not how it is for women, or certain men. It's the commonness of it that is the problem, and it indicates a social problem in that there are really quite a lot of men who feel it's acceptable to do. It's not just some random dumb teen, or some tweaker guy. There are enough of them that it might happen literally every time you go outside. That's a systemic social problem, not random rude people.

    Noticing people versus forcing yourself into their world are two very different things.
    A major problem with your idea here is that the attention in question isn't always unwanted. Some women (and men) actually enjoy it, and will respond positively to such advances.

    No offense, but in that regard, I think your definition of "harassment" is rather broad.

    For example, I am an introvert, somewhat uptight by nature, and was taught against making a spectacle of myself. As such, I'd never even dream of "catcalling."

    However, I have, while out on the town in a state of buzzed over-confidence, approached strange women (sometimes even on the street) on a whim when they have particularly struck my fancy. Now, granted, it didn't work out very well for me, so I quickly learned not to do so.

    I still wouldn't call that "harassment" though.

    I introduced myself, made clear my interest, and asked for their number. When they indicated that they were not interested, I thanked them for their time, and went on my merry way.

    I figured, "nothing ventured, nothing gained."

    Yes. Actually, an upper scale suburban neighborhood were where my earliest experiences with harassment happened, and also some of my worst to this day.

    A certain entitled mindset common to such neighborhoods can make some people feel much more empowered to try to degrade others.

    You know about my busker friends from back in the day and all that, right? A couple of them were actually making very good money, but a lot of them were poor, a few were homeless, etc. Not a rich crowd overall. And certainly a very city crowd.

    I have never experienced less harassment in my life. Not even once, in an entire 9 months.

    It depends entirely on the social ethos, which have nothing to do with money.
    This is anecdotal, and therefore unverifiable one way or the other.

    Needless to say, however, I am skeptical that the average young woman will run across many suburban soccer dads prone to "holla at a bitch" in the same way that some other sub-cultural groups would.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 01:54 AM.

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    Re: Three Hours of Street Harassment in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Who said that? I said an ism is a social construct and distinct from an individual act unsupported by systemic privilege.
    Are you seriously trying to claim that catcalling is the result of a coherent ideological worldview?
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 11-02-14 at 01:56 AM.

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