View Poll Results: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm male - None of it

    3 4.48%
  • I'm female - None of it

    3 4.48%
  • I'm male - Some of it

    23 34.33%
  • I'm female - Some of it

    8 11.94%
  • I'm male - Most of it

    17 25.37%
  • I'm female - Most of it

    6 8.96%
  • I'm male - All of it

    2 2.99%
  • I'm female - All of it

    1 1.49%
  • I'm male - I'll explain my thoughts

    4 5.97%
  • I'm female - I'll explain my thoughts

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

  1. #271
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I have never harassed a woman on the street, nor do I know anyone who has. Hell! I've never ever witnessed it.
    I have, in many cities. In fact, I've seen much worse. Many female friends of mine have been harassed like this, often with much stronger language.

    And of course... the video is an example of this type of behavior. Don't you feel a bit more educated now?


    Again, the simple fact of the matter here is that this is only really a problem for a small minority of men, who generally tend to belong sub-cultural groups which make up small minorities of the overall population anyway.
    Or, it's a problem that is common in many areas, notably dense environments (where women happen to walk past more men in an hour), and is not limited to specific cultures.


    Well, good for them. I'm still not seeing what that has to do with me, however.
    I'm sorry, but this is a silly argument. It's not like they sent you a DVD in the mail with your name on it. You came across the video. If you sympathize with women who are frequently put in this kind of situation, you have the option to do something about it.


    No, but I'm not understanding what you think you're going to accomplish by marketing your "awareness" campaign primarily at Middle and Upper class audiences, when this is a primarily lower class problem to begin with.
    To be clear, I am not marketing anything. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Hollaback, just pointing you to their website.

    The organization also wasn't targeting upper and middle class audiences. There is nothing in their materials which makes any such suggestion, and they repeatedly state that this problem is not limited by location, race, ethnicity, culture. It also doesn't depend on how the woman is dressed, whether she reacts or ignores them. All they did was put the video out there, the media picked it up, and as a result they've gotten millions of views, far beyond what they expected.


    Ah, I see. So women are pregnant all the time, and want to clean stuff, and this inherently restricts their career preferences. Got it.

    How does the nesting instinct, which only really kicks in well into pregnancy, preclude women from working as police officers, or doctors, or scientists, or computer programmers?

    Do the number of women exceed the number of men in jobs like dental hygienists, speech therapy pathologists, paralegals, teachers, physical therapists, and doctor's assistants because of a nesting instinct, that only really kicks in well into pregnancy?

    Did you not notice how the control in that study was other women? As in, most of the time women are not overwhelmed by a need to clean? (Did you even read the study, or just the abstract?)

    I hate to break this to you, but you're drawing a patently ridiculous conclusion based on some useful research. It's one thing to note that women want to provide a clean and safe environment for their infants while pregnant (mostly around the 5th month of pregnancy). It's another, on that basis, to assume that women have an innate preference for domesticity, that is active 100% of the time, and somehow affects their career choice.

    Thanks for the amusement, but no thanks for trying to bolster your pre-existing and culturally influenced ideas based on science.

  2. #272
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I have, in many cities. In fact, I've seen much worse. Many female friends of mine have been harassed like this, often with much stronger language.

    And of course... the video is an example of this type of behavior. Don't you feel a bit more educated now?



    Or, it's a problem that is common in many areas, notably dense environments (where women happen to walk past more men in an hour), and is not limited to specific cultures.



    I'm sorry, but this is a silly argument. It's not like they sent you a DVD in the mail with your name on it. You came across the video. If you sympathize with women who are frequently put in this kind of situation, you have the option to do something about it.



    To be clear, I am not marketing anything. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Hollaback, just pointing you to their website.

    The organization also wasn't targeting upper and middle class audiences. There is nothing in their materials which makes any such suggestion, and they repeatedly state that this problem is not limited by location, race, ethnicity, culture. It also doesn't depend on how the woman is dressed, whether she reacts or ignores them. All they did was put the video out there, the media picked it up, and as a result they've gotten millions of views, far beyond what they expected.



    Ah, I see. So women are pregnant all the time, and want to clean stuff, and this inherently restricts their career preferences. Got it.

    How does the nesting instinct, which only really kicks in well into pregnancy, preclude women from working as police officers, or doctors, or scientists, or computer programmers?

    Do the number of women exceed the number of men in jobs like dental hygienists, speech therapy pathologists, paralegals, teachers, physical therapists, and doctor's assistants because of a nesting instinct, that only really kicks in well into pregnancy?

    Did you not notice how the control in that study was other women? As in, most of the time women are not overwhelmed by a need to clean? (Did you even read the study, or just the abstract?)

    I hate to break this to you, but you're drawing a patently ridiculous conclusion based on some useful research. It's one thing to note that women want to provide a clean and safe environment for their infants while pregnant (mostly around the 5th month of pregnancy). It's another, on that basis, to assume that women have an innate preference for domesticity, that is active 100% of the time, and somehow affects their career choice.

    Thanks for the amusement, but no thanks for trying to bolster your pre-existing and culturally influenced ideas based on science.
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  3. #273
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I have, in many cities. In fact, I've seen much worse. Many female friends of mine have been harassed like this, often with much stronger language.
    Stronger then "have a nice day?"

    I didn't know harassing language got stronger then that!


  4. #274
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    Exactly which of those fit the description?

    I mean, do I know have the cite the definition of persistently to you?

    Again, it's fine this woman doesn't want men to talk to her but that doesn't mean someone saying "hello" is harassing her.
    You don't think anything that happened in that video fits this definition???

    to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

    Here, let me paraphrase it to be most clear.

    to create an unpleasant situation by uninvited and unwelcome verbal conduct

    Nothing like that came across to you in that video?

  5. #275
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You don't think anything that happened in that video fits this definition???

    to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

    Here, let me paraphrase it to be most clear.

    to create an unpleasant situation by uninvited and unwelcome verbal conduct

    Nothing like that came across to you in that video?
    Fill me in on some stuff because maybe I just don't know what "harassment" is. Under the following circumstances am I "harassing" a woman by:

    1. Checking her out as she walks by or is in front of me in line?
    2. Making eye contact and saying "Hello" as she passes?
    3. Turning and checking her out if she ignores me after #2?
    4. Saying "Lookin' good!" as she jogs past?

  6. #276
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    No, it means that roughly every two weeks a women will have to seriously worry about her safety by some stalker following her around. That is not acceptable by any stretch, even more so because so many others condone it.
    I'm a 52 year old still attractive woman, and before I was 50 I was younger and attractive, and worked in a few major cities. I never had a stalker, nor did any of my friends have a stalker. A stalker is someone who follows you repeatedly, harasses you, and seriously threatens your safety. How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that every 2 weeks a woman has to "seriously worry about her safety" because some men call out to her as she walks by? Do you know how many men have done exactly what was done in this video to me, my sister, my friends, my co-workers, my female in-laws, and so on, for decades? Lots. This wasn't just invented the day before yesterday and isn't exclusive to NYC. Never at any time in this video was she being "stalked" by any definition a cop would give you of a stalker.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  7. #277
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Ummm.....name a popular all-female professional sport televised on national TV with regular frequency?
    Who's the female Neil Degrasse Tyson?
    Who's the female Warren Buffett?

    Also - do you think the Kartrasian shows, and Real Housewife shows portray women in a wonderful light?

    Was Edith Bunker or Peg Bundy a great portrayal of women? Who were the great doctors on MASH, and what was the lead female character's main purpose on the show?

    Name a show where the top detective that solves all the crimes is a female character?
    I can list off at least a half a dozen men who've had that role. Who's the female version of Baretta, Kojak, Magnum PI, Iron Sides, Rockford....
    Was there a female MacGyver?

    Sure, some men on some tv shows are portrayed as idiots.
    Apparently that's a reflection of reality.
    Right?
    Women's tennis, figure skating, and gymnastics get network showing in the weekend prime times.
    Who is Neil Degrasse Tyson?
    Oprah Winfrey is wealthy.
    Edith Bunker was a character on a show intended to shock. Same with Peg Bundy
    How many female doctors were in the army in the Korean War?
    Murder She Wrote had a female lead.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #278
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    What 10 hours of street harassment looks like - CNN.com

    Now some of it is outright harassment, but is all of it?

    Please watch the rather short video.
    The only incidents I would consider harassment are the guys who walked along with her. That would be extremely uncomfortable, but any normal woman who wasn't conducting an experiment (or setting up an intentional provocative scene which I suspect) would not continue walking on a city street if that was happening. She would have changed directions, entered a store, or otherwise gotten away from the creepy stalker.

    The thing that raises a red flag for me is where was the camera during this 10 hours? And those people walking with her would not have noticed that somebody ahead of them was video taping it all? That just doesn't ring authentic to me. But I wasn't there and I could be wrong.

    As for the whistles and comments as she passed by, no big deal. No harm. No foul. Certainly not harassment. In some cultures that would be considered a compliment.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #279
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You don't think anything that happened in that video fits this definition???

    to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

    Here, let me paraphrase it to be most clear.

    to create an unpleasant situation by uninvited and unwelcome verbal conduct

    Nothing like that came across to you in that video?
    No, absolutely nothing like that happened.

    Saying "hello" to someone passing by doesn't create an unpleasant situation regardless of if it's invited or not, at least in the given context.

    It's fine that this extremist doesn't want men talking to her but that doesn't make saying "hello" harassment.

  10. #280
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    Re: How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    The video isn't about LOOKING or APPRECIATING. It's about uninvited, unwelcome verbal conduct. And a couple of instances of physical conduct (where two men walk right next to her for several minutes). Don't get a brief, tasteful appreciative look confused with intimidation or harassment. As a woman, I notice a good lookin' man, for sure. But I don't intrude on his day by yelling to him what I like or don't like about his appearance. He's a stranger, for gosh sakes.

    And don't forget that when it's a man talking to or yelling at a woman, that isn't about appreciation at all. It's another form of "putting her in her place." You don't do that to someone who is at your level or above your level, do you? No, you don't.

    It's no different if the man is saying "Hey, beautiful" or "Damn!" from "Hey, ugly." It's not WHAT they are saying. It's that they are walking up to a stranger and giving an opinion on her various parts, when they weren't asked. It's not about dating or romance. It's about control and even hostility sometimes.

    Most women don't hate men at all. After all, most women are mothers of men, sisters of men, aunts of men. Women aren't killing men every day. Women are the nurturers of the family, usually. The caregivers. It sells them short to try and portray them as man-hating feminists.

    This is just about a normal gal walking along, with things on her mind, being verbally accosted repeatedly along the way, when she hasn't done or said anything to invite that. That just doesn't happen to men.
    Well said!

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