View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 56 of 60 FirstFirst ... 6465455565758 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 560 of 595

Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #551
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:19 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,753

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    proof of facts. and it was responsive
    So, give me your argument in full so that I can respond to IT and not go 'round and 'round about old stuff.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  2. #552
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,766

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    So, give me your argument in full so that I can respond to IT and not go 'round and 'round about old stuff.
    the smallest unit that justifies federal commerce clause jurisdiction is state level. the commerce clause was designed to allow congress to resolve commercial disputes between states (such as if Ohio were to tax or impose duties on goods being shipped down the Ohio River from Pennsylvania to St. Louis for example. there is no mention of interstate commerce among individuals nor is the expansive nonsense about 'affecting interstate' commerce mentioned. To claim that the founders intended, or the words they used can be used as a back door grant of a power to regulate retail sales of firearms is specious.



  3. #553
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:19 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,753

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the smallest unit that justifies federal commerce clause jurisdiction is state level. the commerce clause was designed to allow congress to resolve commercial disputes between states (such as if Ohio were to tax or impose duties on goods being shipped down the Ohio River from Pennsylvania to St. Louis for example. there is no mention of interstate commerce among individuals nor is the expansive nonsense about 'affecting interstate' commerce mentioned. To claim that the founders intended, or the words they used can be used as a back door grant of a power to regulate retail sales of firearms is specious.
    Please study interstate...

    And then of course, as to your argument: sure, that's why certain military rifles etc are illegal in certain states. This is why we say that our constitution is living document: it breathes acording to our needs.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #554
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,766

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Please study interstate...

    And then of course, as to your argument: sure, that's why certain military rifles etc are illegal in certain states. This is why we say that our constitution is living document: it breathes acording to our needs.

    I don't think you want to discuss how much study I have had of this issue. saying the constitution is a living document is common with those who want to kill it



  5. #555
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:19 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,753

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't think you want to discuss how much study I have had of this issue. saying the constitution is a living document is common with those who want to kill it
    It's a very imple and very true statment: it was written to be a living document. That is why is some places it seems so vague. Your studies should have suggested that to you: powers not granted to teh federal government are left to the states is a good example. What powers do the states have with respect to issues? Your study should have told this very simple truth as well.

    What credible proofs do you offer (topical...) that show your opinion to be indeed fact?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  6. #556
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,766

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    It's a very imple and very true statment: it was written to be a living document. That is why is some places it seems so vague. Your studies should have suggested that to you: powers not granted to teh federal government are left to the states is a good example. What powers do the states have with respect to issues? Your study should have told this very simple truth as well.

    What credible proofs do you offer (topical...) that show your opinion to be indeed fact?
    a living document in the sense it could be amended. changing the meaning of words to create new governmental powers is dishonest.



  7. #557
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:19 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,753

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a living document in the sense it could be amended. changing the meaning of words to create new governmental powers is dishonest.
    The only thing that says is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    Go get your proofs.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  8. #558
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,766

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The only thing that says is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    Go get your proofs.
    you are claiming I don't know what I am talking about

    so it is your learned opinion that in addition to AMENDING the Constitution, the founders believed that the court or politicians could expand the power of the federal government by merely pretending that the clear language of say the commerce clause now-140 years after the document was written-means that congress could fine a farmer for going wheat for his own consumption,

    that is you view of what the founders intended? so why have an amendment process




  9. #559
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:19 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,753

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are claiming I don't know what I am talking about

    so it is your learned opinion that in addition to AMENDING the Constitution, the founders believed that the court or politicians could expand the power of the federal government by merely pretending that the clear language of say the commerce clause now-140 years after the document was written-means that congress could fine a farmer for going wheat for his own consumption,

    that is you view of what the founders intended? so why have an amendment process

    I'm not only claiming that you don't know what you're talking about, I'm declaring it: "You don't know what you're talking about". You come into a "proofs required thread, you make a ridiculous assertion - that makes some sort of sense to you - and then you can't back it up.

    And I'm wrong!?!

    Ho ho
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  10. #560
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,766

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm not only claiming that you don't know what you're talking about, I'm declaring it: "You don't know what you're talking about". You come into a "proofs required thread, you make a ridiculous assertion - that makes some sort of sense to you - and then you can't back it up.

    And I'm wrong!?!

    Ho ho
    this is a fundamental question about the entire foundation upon which are government was based upon

    do you believe that the founders set up a government that can expand its power by merely saying that the words the founders used now mean something different than what was obviously the case in 1790 or so?



Page 56 of 60 FirstFirst ... 6465455565758 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •