View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #471
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is your strawman. It is not mine.



    nah - you don't. You have already been given the words and the Supreme Court says it allows the power to enact federal gun control but you ignore that also and take issue with it viewing FDR as some sort of great satan. So you really do not want to see anything that does not agree with you so why ask for it in the first place?
    you merely said congress has the power

    you didn't bother to specify what



  2. #472
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It's simple.

    ALL MEN to a person who does not consider a black person a man, but property, is VASTLY different from our current interpretation of "ALL MEN".
    But Jefferson did. And he wrote the sentence in question. So that does not fly.

    OW, if the founders were intentionally lying when they said "all men", they screwed themselves anyway - it just took us a couple centuries too long to realize and apply the slip.
    YOu can only cover your own ass while you have one to cover. After them came the deluge. And I suspect the worms did not care who their dinner was or what they believed in.

    This means that such a person could easily vote for a law that says "ALL MEN" without realizing he just opened the door to freeing his property from slavery.
    I do take my hat off to you and give you credit as your tolerance and acceptance of self righteous political BS and outright hypocrisy is a hundred times stronger than mine is.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-02-14 at 10:19 PM.
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  3. #473
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you merely said congress has the power

    you didn't bother to specify what
    You asked if the federal government had the power and I showed you that. You can read the Constitution for yourself. But why bother?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #474
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You asked if the federal government had the power and I showed you that. You can read the Constitution for yourself. But why bother?
    the power to regulate guns and no, you did not



  5. #475
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the power to regulate guns and no, you did not
    Why do you ask the question over and over and over in thread after thread after thread when the answer is irrelevant to you as all you do is attack what the COurt has already said proving you wrong about Article I Section 8?

    We always come back to the same denial after denial after denial. YOu ask for proof and proof is given and then your reject that even though you have been given the proof that the federal government can regulate firearms.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #476
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why do you ask the question over and over and over in thread after thread after thread when the answer is irrelevant to you as all you do is attack what the COurt has already said proving you wrong about Article I Section 8?
    again what court has ever held that anything other than the commerce clause supports federal gun control

    and again the issue is what the founders intended-not what the FDR administration could conjure up



  7. #477
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    again what court has ever held that anything other than the commerce clause supports federal gun control
    They need nothing more than that. I have also stated repeatedly when you ask things like this that I am not FDR, I am not his attorney, and I am not the Court in the 1930's. As such I can have my own opinion and my own argument and I am NOT responsible for limiting myself to what they utilized in the Constitution in that time and in that case.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-02-14 at 10:23 PM.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #478
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    They need nothing more than that.
    but you claim the founders intended federal gun control in several of the clauses in addition to the commerce clause. its proof of that claim I want to see



  9. #479
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but you claim the founders intended federal gun control in several of the clauses in addition to the commerce clause. its proof of that claim I want to see
    I have given that to you.... repeatedly.

    Tell me Turtle and tell me honestly as you are not a stupid person but one who is well educated and experienced. YOu know what I will say... and I know what you will say ... so what is the point?

    And we both know that you will ask it again soon and we will dance the same dance over again and the same stuff will be exchanged. So what exactly is the point of you asking me to provide the proof to you that you have already seen over and over and over again but rejected all those times?

    Please explain that to me.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #480
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have given that to you.... repeatedly.

    Tell me Turtle and tell me honestly as you are not a stupid person but one who is well educated and experienced. YOu know what I will say... and I know what you will say ... so what is the point?

    And we both know that you will ask it again soon and we will dance the same dance over again and the same stuff will be exchanged. So what exactly is the point of you asking me to provide the proof to you that you have already seen over and over and over again but rejected all those times?

    Please explain that to me.
    you have not given me anything other than a claim

    no proof

    no examination of the language which clearly contains nothing about gun control

    just an opinion that has no support in any document from that era



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