View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #421
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What is there about them saying that ALL MEN had these rights that you fail to understand when you attempt to give them credit for screwing lots of other people but trying to protect their own elitist asses? In your book that is somehow a good thing rather than evidence of the worst sort of intellectual fraud and gross personal hypocrisy? Do you really and truly actually see that as some sort of virtue????

    That is beyond astounding!!!!
    lets examine your claims

    why would the authors of the constitution want to limit the very rights they wanted to enjoy or exercise?



  2. #422
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If one is not honest in their assessment, and requires everything to be perfect or evil conspirators are tricking everyone, then others cannot expect that person to be of any use. Perhaps you just need to understand the sociology behind natural rights, grasp that the founders understood this, and then maybe debates will not be so meaningless for you. But as long as you remain ignorant and spewing garbage rants about Constitutional conspiracy theory, you really cannot expect anyone to listen.

    Perhaps try your routine in the CT subforum? You might find a more accepting audience there.
    Before we get to that day of nirvanna, can you explain what the heck your question in your so called scientific survey actually means in plain English?
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  3. #423
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Something you have never provided any evidence for no matter how many times I have challenged you to show that the Founders believed in your so called "natural right to be armed".
    that has been provided to you dozens of times

    and we have asked you to show that the authors of the constitution intended the federal government to have the power to "infringe" on the right to keep and bear arms

    that has never been answered. rather we get "they wrote the constitution" and that is based on the erroneous assumption that the constitution specifically delegates any such power



  4. #424
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lets examine your claims

    why would the authors of the constitution want to limit the very rights they wanted to enjoy or exercise?
    1- Because they had a brain.
    3- because the responsibility of government is a hell of a lot different than the idle musings of the dilettantes where nothing is at risk.
    2- You never proved they wanted the rights that you claim they wanted - so the ball is still in your court.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #425
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Before we get to that day of nirvanna, can you explain what the heck your question in your so called scientific survey actually means in plain English?
    I'm just saying, if you're not finding an audience for your conspiracy theory, perhaps it's because you're not in that subforum.

  6. #426
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that has been provided to you dozens of times
    excellent. So simply produce one.

    But you will not do so because there is nothing to produce.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #427
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm just saying, if you're not finding an audience for your conspiracy theory, perhaps it's because you're not in that subforum.
    You are not making sense on any level.

    Why don't you try explaining your big survey question which "proves" that natural rights exist?

    We can ask ourselves the question: "would I give up my right to life in order to take it away from all others". The answer to this question is always no. This establishes the self evidence of the right, regardless of any governmental authority.
    What the heck does that even mean?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #428
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    1- Because they had a brain.
    3- because the responsibility of government is a hell of a lot different than the idle musings of the dilettantes where nothing is at risk.
    2- You never proved they wanted the rights that you claim they wanted - so the ball is still in your court.
    that is a rather deficient proof.

    they thought federal gun control was needed in addition to state police powers? can you find anything from anyone associated with the creation of the constitution that actually supports that speculation?



  9. #429
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    and I should care more about that than the reality I live in for the year 2014 because ...???????
    Sounded like you were talking about the Founders being hypocrites... what does that have to do with 2014?
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    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  10. #430
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is a rather deficient proof.

    they thought federal gun control was needed in addition to state police powers? can you find anything from anyone associated with the creation of the constitution that actually supports that speculation?
    It is a perfect proof which you do not like because it destroys your premise.

    Yes. Article I Section 8.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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