View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 41 of 60 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 595

Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #401
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,700

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    What is this about FDR?

    If the state of Ohio wants machine guns illegal, then by state's rights, they can make them illegal. What is it aout the 10th Amendment that you're not getting?

    As for regulations, you can start with the Thompson Sub machine gun. That's a good story.
    that doesn't address my point about the federal government and the dishonest expansion of the commerce clause does it?



  2. #402
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:35 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,722

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that doesn't address my point about the federal government and the dishonest expansion of the commerce clause does it?
    What point? What about FDR?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  3. #403
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,700

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    What point? What about FDR?
    have you read the commerce clause?

    can you point out where it granted the federal government all the powers that FDR claimed it did



  4. #404
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:34 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,896

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am wondering how you can claim the founders who wrote the constitution and the Bill of Rights actually wanted the federal government to have gun control power and the 2A to actually recognize almost nothing based on the specious claim that some of those in another set of men "lied" about the DOI

    the extent and coverage thing is very easy to understand and has been explained more than adequately
    I base everything on the language they gave us in the Constitution and not a No True Scotsman fallacy as you do. The other thing Turtle - I will give you my honest and direct opinion on this - people who claim they know the true intent of any founder to me are worse than snake oil salesmen, ponzi scheme con men and sex traffickers combined. Any time somebody tells me about the true intent of somebody who lived two and a third centuries ago - I want to puke in revulsion at the complete fraud it involves. When I worked in the legislature for three years, I saw legislators who passed a bill a year or two previously and now were crying tears about its implementation saying they never intended it to work out that way.

    My response; tough - I could not care less. If that happens in just a year or two, imagine how ridiculous it is to talk about intent about something written 225 years ago when the nation was so radically different in almost every way.

    Even if somebody could channel dead Founders and talk to them - I really don't give a bag of garden manure about what they would say as we don't even live in that nation anymore and they do not live in the nation we live in today .
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #405
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,700

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I base everything on the language they gave us in the Constitution and not a No True Scotsman fallacy as you do. The other thing Turtle - I will give you my honest and direct opinion on this - people who claim they know the true intent of any founder to me are worse than snake oil salesmen, ponzi scheme con men and sex traffickers combined. Any time somebody tells me about the true intent of somebody who lived two and a third centuries ago - I want to puke in revulsion at the complete fraud it involves. When I worked in the legislature for three years, I saw legislators who passed a bill a year or two previously and now were crying tears about its implementation saying they never intended it to work out that way.

    My response; tough - I could not care less. If that happens in just a year or two, imagine how ridiculous it is to talk about intent about something written 225 years ago when the nation was so radically different in almost every way.

    Even if somebody could channel dead Founders and talk to them - I really don't give a bag of garden manure about what they would say as we don't even live in that nation anymore and they do not live in the nation we live in today .
    the language they gave us says nothing about any government power to control firearms.
    The No true scotsman nonsense has no relevance to this argument at all.



  6. #406
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:34 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,896

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Originally Posted by TurtleDude

    the extent and coverage thing is very easy to understand and has been explained more than adequately

    And your response about your argument about consent and coverage tells me that
    1- either you don't even understand what it has to do with this, or
    2- I already destroyed it so you just want to keep it as vague as possible without having to actually defend a losing idea
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #407
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,700

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And your response about your argument about consent and coverage tells me that
    1- either you don't even understand what it has to do with this, or
    2- I already destroyed it so you just want to keep it as vague as possible without having to actually defend a losing idea
    I am amused when you say you destroyed my argument by claiming that since you believe some of the signatories to the DOI "lied" because they did not include slaves in "all men" those who wrote the constitution actually wanted to restrict their own rights as guaranteed by the 2A or they wanted to give the government all sorts of powers to regulate firearms even though they never even HINTEDD at that power in any part of the constitution



  8. #408
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:34 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,896

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the language they gave us says nothing about any government power to control firearms.
    The No true scotsman nonsense has no relevance to this argument at all.
    That is the same thing you have said what seems like a million times and you know what my response is since I have given it to you that many times as well.

    You have shown you have no concept of what that fallacy even is - so your response that it is not relevant is more than predictable.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #409
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:34 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,896

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am amused when you say you destroyed my argument by claiming that since you believe some of the signatories to the DOI "lied" because they did not include slaves in "all men" those who wrote the constitution actually wanted to restrict their own rights as guaranteed by the 2A or they wanted to give the government all sorts of powers to regulate firearms even though they never even HINTEDD at that power in any part of the constitution
    ALL MEN ARE ALL MEN TURTLE. what is there about that concept that you seem to fail to grasp?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #410
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    ALL MEN ARE ALL MEN TURTLE. at is there about that concept that you seem to fail to grasp?
    Why the yelling?

    Do you not understand that the world was and is not perfect? Using perfection as the criteria for honesty is, well, horribly dishonest.

Page 41 of 60 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •