View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
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  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
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Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #301
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    haymarket you can believe whatever you wish, but your record of being consistently wrong is a proven fact.



    you were wrong when you stated
    : the Constitution was ratified in Sept 1788




    you were wrong when you stated
    :the bill of rights was ratified in March of 1792




    you were wrong when you stated
    : article 1 section 8 of the constitution granted the federal government power to directly tax the people., even though direct taxes on the people was prohibited by the Constitution.




    you were wrong when you stated
    : the bill of rights gave people their rights.
    Please provide the evidence of these claims of factual error.

    And then explain how if I or anyone else gets a simple date wrong - how that is any evidence of who is correct regarding a belief where our rights come from?

    And then explain why any mistakes you have made in the past do not prove you are wrong about something you say about natural rights - as you are dishonestly trying to do with me?

    everybody here makes a mistake of fact from time to time. That proves nothing either way about natural rights.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-01-14 at 05:04 PM.
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  2. #302
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    already proved many times, on many threads.
    Then simply reproduce that or link to one because you have just claimed to have done what nobody is history has ever done.
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  3. #303
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Please provide the evidence of these claims of factual error.

    And then explain how if I or anyone else gets a simple date wrong - how that is any evidence of who is right regarding where our rights come from?

    everybody here makes a mistake of fact from time to time. That proves nothing either way about natural rights.
    you stated natural rights do not exist, and started the DOI [a founding document ]is a lie.

    when you have discussed the founding documents before, you were wrong and you have shown consistency in that position

  4. #304
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then simply reproduce that or link to one because you have just claimed to have done what nobody is history has ever done.
    i have produced many links for you in thread after thread proving you wrong, as well have you own statements providing you wrong as well....[as previously noted]

  5. #305
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you stated natural rights do not exist, and started the DOI [a founding document ]is a lie.

    when you have discussed the founding documents before, you were wrong and you have shown consistency in that position
    2nd Amendment Truth (pushed by True Believers) is out there and they know it's all a conspiracy!

    Everyone is lying. It's a trick. Ahhhhhhhh!


    It's a sorry alternative to actually understanding the concepts.

  6. #306
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you stated natural rights do not exist, and started the DOI [a founding document ]is a lie.

    when you have discussed the founding documents before, you were wrong and you have shown consistency in that position
    How does a simple mistake of a date provide any evidence that you are correct about natural rights and I am incorrect?

    That is akin to claiming that because somebody got a math problem wrong two years ago, any math problem that they do is wrong. That sort of tactic is blatantly dishonest.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #307
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    2nd Amendment Truth (pushed by True Believers) is out there and they know it's all a conspiracy!

    Everyone is lying. It's a trick. Ahhhhhhhh!


    It's a sorry alternative to actually understanding the concepts.
    That makes no sense. Who is saying everyone is lying? Who is saying its a trick?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #308
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i have produced many links for you in thread after thread proving you wrong, as well have you own statements providing you wrong as well....[as previously noted]
    So you cannot provide any evidence that natural rights exist outside of any belief system held by the believer because they want to believe. Thank you.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #309
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That makes no sense. Who is saying everyone is lying? Who is saying its a trick?
    Lots of people do - natural rights deniers. For example: Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Saddam...

    It's like they're detached from humanity and lack the basic empathy inherent to humans that is needed to understand natural rights.

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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How does a simple mistake of a date provide any evidence that you are correct about natural rights and I am incorrect?

    That is akin to claiming that because somebody got a math problem wrong two years ago, any math problem that they do is wrong. That sort of tactic is blatantly dishonest.
    terrible track record on knowledge of founding documents.

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