View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #291
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yes we know that and there is no denying that the "existence" of inalienable/natural rights is the presumption upon which the founders created the Constitution and the framework of the government
    yes ,so it is no question.....that they did believe in natural rights, and most definitely the anti federalist who wrote about them in their papers for there not being anything in the constitution to protect those rights.


    anti-federalist papers #2

    Anti-Federalist Papers: Brutus #2

  2. #292
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tl dr ts
    If you hadn't I would have.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  3. #293
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    I knew you were too lazy to read. That's why I offered the short version. You are being disrespectful and childish when you say that dumb mess.
    Are not.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  4. #294
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Are not.
    Are not? Are not what? I don't remember what I accused you of. can you help me out a little bit?

  5. #295
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    There is no way to prove whether natural rights exist.

    However my understanding is that at least a good portion (perhaps all) of the persons involved in debating/writing/signing the constitution and some of it's amendments DID believe natural rights existed, and they wrote the clauses to protect those rights.

    Thus it doesn't really matter whether you can prove natural rights exist or not - the key is whether you can convince others to support enshrining/codifying those rights into law.
    the founders who feigned a belief in natural rights only used the belief in them as a smokescreen for their own actions. no person - especially and educated person who professes a belief in the EQUALITY OF ALL MEN and who practices slavery can honestly believe in natural rights.

    It was simply lipstick on the pig to con the gullible and politically naive.
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  6. #296
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    since rights are negative law and not written down, the answer is as plain as the nose on your face.

    unwritten law legal definition of unwritten law
    yes the answer is very very clear: neither you nor anyone else can prove that these so called natural rights ever existed.
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  7. #297
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no, you are deflecting by just stating, "natural rights only exist to the believers of natural rights", which is no answer .

    the declaration of independence IE u.s.code and its used in enabling laws support the fact of ........natural rights.
    The statement in the Declaration was an outright lie when first written and was only a PR statement for the politically naive and gullible. The men who wrote it and many who signed it lived lives directly opposite and contrary of the high and mighty principles they stated they believed in.
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  8. #298
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    natural rights of the people are stated in the federalist papers. #2
    Which is as much evidence of the existence of natural rights in the real world as writing the same nonsense on bathroom tissue. But at least that would have some real world practical value.
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  9. #299
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The statement in the Declaration was an outright lie when first written and was only a PR statement for the politically naive and gullible. The men who wrote it and many who signed it lived lives directly opposite and contrary of the high and mighty principles they stated they believed in.
    haymarket you can believe whatever you wish, but your record of being consistently wrong is a proven fact.



    you were wrong when you stated
    : the Constitution was ratified in Sept 1788




    you were wrong when you stated
    :the bill of rights was ratified in March of 1792




    you were wrong when you stated
    : article 1 section 8 of the constitution granted the federal government power to directly tax the people., even though direct taxes on the people was prohibited by the Constitution.




    you were wrong when you stated
    : the bill of rights gave people their rights.

  10. #300
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yes the answer is very very clear: neither you nor anyone else can prove that these so called natural rights ever existed.
    already proved many times, on many threads.

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