View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #231
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Still cannot answer the question I see EB.
    disgraceful ploy haymarket

  2. #232
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You fail right out of the gate Turtle. The Founders DID NOT believe in natural rights as their statement about them in the Declaration was a blatant lie which leaves no doubt that it was merely a high fallutin pompous pontification made for the benefit of the gullible and naive who swallow such nonsense.

    Lets apply your own logic to this and see how it works for you: nobody can believe in natural rights and the equality of all people with rights given by their Creator when they themselves enslave their fellow man and deny them all the so called rights that they claim they believe in.

    It is worse than a pedophile buggering a child while making statements against child abuse at the very moment of their disgusting activities. Slavery is far more encompassing and last a hell of a lot longer.
    so now your argument is that the founders DID NOT intend to protect rights they claimed were inalienable and natural based on what PROOF?

    your argument-as usual-fails because its a straw man

    the founders may not have seen slaves as "men" within the meaning of their words

    but they certainly saw themselves and other white males as being entitled to the rights they sought to protect

    so your argument is meaningless



  3. #233
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no proof, just the standard haymarket escape statement
    Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
    George Washington was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Patrick Henry was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    James Madison was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    You need more proof? I have it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #234
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
    George Washington was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Patrick Henry was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    James Madison was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    You need more proof? I have it.
    simple question

    did TJ intend to deny himself and those just like him the rights he claimed were important?



  5. #235
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Define proof. Proof in mathmatics maybe, but the rest is a matter of quality. I am really not sure there is any proof we all exist.
    Proof of what one is asserting. If I told you Obama declared he was a hindu you would be correct to ask me for proof of this assertion.

  6. #236
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    simple question

    did TJ intend to deny himself and those just like him the rights he claimed were important?
    Deny himself!?!?!?!?!?! I have no idea what that means. Do you?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #237
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
    George Washington was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Patrick Henry was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    James Madison was a slave owner whose actions denied the equality of all men and their so called natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    You need more proof? I have it.
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...508C3D6A4FD0A8
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-31-14 at 12:59 AM.

  8. #238
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Deny himself!?!?!?!?!?! I have no idea what that means. Do you?
    oh come on

    do you claim Tom Jefferson intended to DENY people like him the rights you claim they didn't believe in

    that is what you are claiming

    you argue that since he and the other founders did not include blacks in coverage of these rights, these founders actually did not believe in such rights for ANYONE

    isn't that your "no true scotsman" fallacy you constantly recite?

    just because the founders did not think blacks were entitled to natural rights DOES NOT PROVE that the founders did not want these rights for themselves

    its as stupid as saying that the founders did not intend that the founders and other white men to really have an ability to vote since slaves couldn't vote



  9. #239
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you have been placed on..." double secret probation"
    Do you remember the last person who announced such an absurdity?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #240
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Deny himself!?!?!?!?!?! I have no idea what that means. Do you?
    more evasion-you know exactly what I am saying but it destroys the claim that since blacks were not included that means the founders did not believe in Natural rights (for themselves and other white citizens)

    are you saying TJ and the other founders did not want to guarantee the very rights they wanted to exercise themselves?



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