View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
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  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
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Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #211
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry but YOU.... who has made claims here, not me....now you support them....instead of asking questions of people to disprove your claims.

    in laymen's terms:.....stop trying to have people prove your statements wrong, the burden is on YOU, to prove your statements are correct.
    Yup - I was right. My simple question has all the natural rights believers in knots.
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  2. #212
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yup - I was right. My simple question has all the natural rights believers in knots.
    as usual you are going to produce nothing, but instead just make claims.....oh well I could see it coming a mile away, but I still had to make a statement to prove the point I was making about you.

  3. #213
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    If proof is available, it can reasonably be asked for - it all depends on the situation.

    For example a philosophical argument probably won't have much if any proof available.
    But if we're talking finances of a nation or state, evidence/proof would be readily available.

    You will always have outlier persons who insist anything they disagree with is unqualified as proof, yet there is a certain level of proof that any reasonable person should accept.

    Then of course we enter into the interpretation of said evidence....all hell breaks loose, usually. Unless it's a really clear-cut situation.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #214
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    as usual you are going to produce nothing, but instead just make claims.....oh well I could see it coming a mile away, but I still had to make a statement to prove the point I was making about you.
    Thank you for again confirming you are not able to answer my simple question without also destroying any claim to the pre-existence of natural rights.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #215
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you for again confirming you are not able to answer my simple question without also destroying any claim to the pre-existence of natural rights.

    lol ..answer your questions. I didn't make claims you did. and the ploy of trying to shift the burden on other people. and trying to take a victory lap, sends a clear message of you technic. which is low.

  6. #216
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    lol ..answer your questions. I didn't make claims you did. and the ploy of trying to shift the burden on other people. and trying to take a victory lap, sends a clear message of you technic. which is low.
    yup - I found the natural rights believers achilles heel and now they scurry to protect it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #217
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yup - I found the natural rights believers achilles heel and now they scurry to protect it.
    disgraceful technic...disgraceful









    p.s. fan of product
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-31-14 at 12:24 AM.

  8. #218
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    disgraceful technic...disgraceful

    yeah - I guess coming up with a simple question that exposes your fraudulent claims about natural rights would indeed be considered as disgraceful by the believers in it.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  9. #219
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yup - I found the natural rights believers achilles heel and now they scurry to protect it.
    My take on the idea of natural rights is that they are a belief system that MAY be positive, so long as said natural rights are positive - belief in natural rights would seem to lead people to support codification of natural rights into constitutional rights, for example.

    However so far as I know there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of natural rights.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #220
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    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yeah - I guess coming up with a simple question that exposes your fraudulent claims about natural rights would indeed be considered as disgraceful by the believers in it.


    The Declaration of Independence:


    IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --




    you LOSE every time you try the BUCK the founders.

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