View Poll Results: Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We need the facts to make for fair discussion.

    41 61.19%
  • Yes. Some people make stuff up.

    24 35.82%
  • No. Demanding proof is a cop out or scare tactic.

    4 5.97%
  • No. Proof is for trials in court and irrelavent for debates.

    1 1.49%
  • Yes. Other.

    22 32.84%
  • No. Other.

    4 5.97%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 14 of 60 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 595

Thread: Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

  1. #131
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,703

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I see you failed to meet my challenge with anything but raw vitriol. As expected.
    Your challenge is stupid. Your failure to grasp natural rights is absurd. A simple scientific experiment proves them to exist.

    Your harping about someone explaining it to you in a way that will bring the idea within your grasp is not material to the discussion. Your position is simple; it's nothing more than ignorance. And all the crying in the world about that ignorance will not change the fact that it is ignorance and not worthy of a position let alone a rebuttal.

  2. #132
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    91,395

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    actually that is not true.
    The claim made by you is that the Founders believed in natural rights and because of that would not have given the Congress the right to regulate firearms.

    Is that correct?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #133
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,703

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The claim made by you is that the Founders believed in natural rights and because of that would not have given the Congress the right to regulate firearms.

    Is that correct?
    His claim is that self defense and the defense of others is a natural right. The founders understood this and, in enumerating that natural right, specified that the arms utilized by a militia (reserve infantry) are not to be infringed upon.

    His claim is scientific and historical fact. No amount of ignorance on your part can change that.

  4. #134
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    91,395

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Your challenge is stupid. Your failure to grasp natural rights is absurd. A simple scientific experiment proves them to exist.

    Your harping about someone explaining it to you in a way that will bring the idea within your grasp is not material to the discussion. Your position is simple; it's nothing more than ignorance. And all the crying in the world about that ignorance will not change the fact that it is ignorance and not worthy of a position let alone a rebuttal.
    Aside from the attacks on me because I have committed the mortal sin of not sharing your beliefs, what exactly is this "simple scientific" method you have of proving that natural rights exist.

    This thread is about PROOF and EVIDENCE so lets see yours.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #135
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    91,395

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    His claim is that self defense and the defense of others is a natural right. The founders understood this and, in enumerating that natural right, specified that the arms utilized by a militia (reserve infantry) are not to be infringed upon.
    Those are simple abilities that people have. They are only elevated to the level of a right when the government of the people declares them as protected behaviors.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #136
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,703

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    They are only elevated to the level of a right when the government of the people declares them as protected behaviors.
    Ignorance

  7. #137
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    91,395

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ignorance
    How so? Where is your proof and evidence. That is what this thread is about and with every personal pontification of vitriol you make you underling the need for a standard of proof and verification.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #138
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,703

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Aside from the attacks on me because I have committed the mortal sin of not sharing your beliefs, what exactly is this "simple scientific" method you have of proving that natural rights exist.

    This thread is about PROOF and EVIDENCE so lets see yours.
    1. Self evidence

    We can ask ourselves the question: "would I give up my right to life in order to take it away from all others". The answer to this question is always no. This establishes the self evidence of the right, regardless of any governmental authority.

    2. The experiment is expanded to N=20 and beyond.

    We can ask any number of groups of people (with like power) this question. Every individual will answer the same as we did. This establishes, as a matter of scientific experiment, that the right to life is a natural right and not dependent upon government authority.

    3. We must understand that inalienable does not equal inviolable.

    A right can be violated (both justly and unjustly). This does not make the right cease to exist. Just because someone is murdered does not mean they had no right to life; clearly, they had a right to life and it was violated.

    When we speak of inalienable, we are referring to the universality of natural rights among people and not an imagined inviolability of any right.

    4. We must grasp that this experiment and the understanding that comes with it is the basis of the US Constitution.

    If we understand the concept of natural rights, then we understand the revolutionary nature of the government created by the founders. Only through this understanding can the Constitution be interpreted rationally.

    Natural rights are socially natural objects. The arise in every like-powered group of people and they always will.



    If that's beyond ones grasp... not my problem.

    There's your PROOF. There are the FACTS. Now abandon your childish BS about natural rights being a conspiracy.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 10-29-14 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #139
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    91,395

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    1. Self evidence

    We can ask ourselves the question: "would I give up my right to life in order to take it away from all others". The answer to this question is always no. This establishes the self evidence of the right, regardless of any governmental authority.
    You mentioned a "SCIENTIFIC" method to prove the existence of natural rights. This is not a scientific method.



    2. The experiment is expanded to N=20 and beyond.

    We can ask any number of groups of people (with like power) this question. Every individual will answer the same as we did. This establishes, as a matter of scientific experiment, that the right to life is a natural right and not dependent upon government authority.
    IT is NOT a scientific experiment. It is not what you claimed you could deliver.

    3. We must understand that inalienable does not equal inviolable.

    A right can be violated (both justly and unjustly). This does not make the right cease to exist. Just because someone is murdered does not mean they had no right to life; clearly, they had a right to life and it was violated.
    Again, this is NOT the SCIENTIFIC method you boasted about. And if the right only exists in the belief system of others - it cannot be exercised nor can it be violated because it does not exist in the real world outside of a belief in someones mind.

    4. We must understand that this experiment and the understanding that comes with it is the basis of the US Constitution.
    What you are attempting to pass off here as a scientific experiment is mere sophistry and word play.

    You failed. It is not Proof. It is not facts.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-29-14 at 12:50 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #140
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,703

    Re: Proof and Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You mentioned a "SCIENTIFIC" method to prove the existence of natural rights. This is not a scientific method.
    Survey is a scientific experiment and is implicitly a scientific method. What kind of idiocy is it to claim that a survey is not a scientific experiment.

    Perhaps some knowledge of basic science would help you understand natural rights, but I'm not here to provide that to you.

Page 14 of 60 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •