View Poll Results: Do Governments Restrict Freedom or Provide It?

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • I lean right and govt restricts freedom.

    23 58.97%
  • I lean left and govt restricts freedom.

    11 28.21%
  • I lean right and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    3 7.69%
  • I lean left and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt restricts freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    2 5.13%
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Thread: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

  1. #241
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Simple peer pressure restricts what people can do. One can flout laws as easily as peer pressure as long as they're willing to pay whatever consequences there may be.
    Thats true, but so are my prior comments.

  2. #242
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Not really much freedom, about on par with other west european socialist nations. Yes, your birth rates are plummeting and only maintained by immigrants. It will change sweeden more than the other way around-you can get to see how a non ethnically-homogenous country does, the US has known for some time. Your tiny nation may have spent all it could on military defense, but its peanuts-nothing in the scheme of things, and youve benefitted from being protected by the big boys like the US. Remove that protection and you are Russia's prison wife one day. You (Sweden) are socialist, though I understand you see things from the european view. Things have been so good there that you for a time could probably get by on any system, but not for long.

    I do love your women, and your knives (Mora types) though. The Bofors cannon as well.
    But if Sweden as you say is socialist. Is it not than intersting that in Sweden you can still become rich and we have globaly succesful private companies like H & M and Volvo trucks (that part of Volvo still swedish owned)? But your are partly right that immigration is part of the help for sweden have a working birth rate but also for example maternity leave and daycare center that makes it possible to woman to combine children and a career.

    Also powerful countries have come and gone and Sweden have kept it's indepedence for two hundred years. That in the balance of power everyone play their roll. Big countries will not have a shift of balance of power therefor they will intervene if smaller countries is atacked. And smaller country have a strong defence that make it costly to atack and also hold of long enough that an intervention from other countries can be possible.

    Also good that you like some thing about Sweden

  3. #243
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    But if Sweden as you say is socialist. Is it not than intersting that in Sweden you can still become rich and we have globaly succesful private companies like H & M and Volvo trucks (that part of Volvo still swedish owned)? But your are partly right that immigration is part of the help for sweden have a working birth rate but also for example maternity leave and daycare center that makes it possible to woman to combine children and a career.

    Also powerful countries have come and gone and Sweden have kept it's indepedence for two hundred years. That in the balance of power everyone play their roll. Big countries will not have a shift of balance of power therefor they will intervene if smaller countries is atacked. And smaller country have a strong defence that make it costly to atack and also hold of long enough that an intervention from other countries can be possible.

    Also good that you like some thing about Sweden
    There are very wealthy people in china, so thats not evidence of not being socialist-there are elites everywhere.

  4. #244
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    There are very wealthy people in china, so thats not evidence of not being socialist-there are elites everywhere.
    Good point but their are a big diffrence between the Soviet Union and yestersdays communist china and Sweden and todays "what you call it" China. That in Sweden and China today you can become rich by working hard in private capitalist companies or staring your own indpedent company instead of yesterdays China and Soviet union their you became part of the elite by a carrier in goverment. I don't know but China but in Sweden you also become much more wealthy belonging to capitalist elite when the politicla elite. That the CEO:s of Swedish biggest companies earn lot of more money then the primeminister and other high ranking politician.

    Also it's is also a huge diffrence between yesterday and todays China and Soviet union compared to Sweden, that Sweden is a democracy. This for example mean the right for free speech and the right to associate. This of course includes private companies that organize in strong interest organization and just like in USA spend a lot of money on propagande to make Sweden become more capitalistic.

    Also in Sweden companies probably have a lot less goverment regulation and laws then USA then it comes to the labormarket, that Sweden for example don't have minium wage laws. Instead the labormarket is regulated through collective agreement between strong interest organization and strong labor union to find common grounds, without the goverment. For example minumum wage increaes is decided by how well the Swedish export industry is doing not political squabble. Also then economical crisis hit Sweden the strong industry and labor organization could agree on crisis agreement. Meaning that swedish worker have to accept to work less hour and get less monthly wages but higher hourly wages. For the company this was good because they could decrease the total cost of labor at the same time they didn't have strikes and other labor conflict, that happened in other countries during that time. They could also keep competent workers in their organization so they didn't have big recruiting costs or be unable to find the right skilled workes when the the economy recovered. For the workers it meant that they and their coworkes could keep theier job and also that the lower mounthly wages was compensated by more free time and higher hourly wages.
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 10-26-14 at 07:23 AM.

  5. #245
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Good point but their are a big diffrence between the Soviet Union and yestersdays communist china and Sweden and todays "what you call it" China. That in Sweden and China today you can become rich by working hard in private capitalist companies or staring your own indpedent company instead of yesterdays China and Soviet union their you became part of the elite by a carrier in goverment. I don't know but China but in Sweden you also become much more wealthy belonging to capitalist elite when the politicla elite. That the CEO:s of Swedish biggest companies earn lot of more money then the primeminister and other high ranking politician.

    Also it's is also a huge diffrence between yesterday and todays China and Soviet union compared to Sweden, that Sweden is a democracy. This for example mean the right for free speech and the right to associate. This of course includes private companies that organize in strong interest organization and just like in USA spend a lot of money on propagande to make Sweden become more capitalistic.

    Also in Sweden companies probably have a lot less goverment regulation and laws then USA then it comes to the labormarket, that Sweden for example don't have minium wage laws. Instead the labormarket is regulated through collective agreement between strong interest organization and strong labor union to find common grounds, without the goverment. For example minumum wage increaes is decided by how well the Swedish export industry is doing not political squabble. Also then economical crisis hit Sweden the strong industry and labor organization could agree on crisis agreement. Meaning that swedish worker have to accept to work less hour and get less monthly wages but higher hourly wages. For the company this was good because they could decrease the total cost of labor at the same time they didn't have strikes and other labor conflict, that happened in other countries during that time. They could also keep competent workers in their organization so they didn't have big recruiting costs or be unable to find the right skilled workes when the the economy recovered. For the workers it meant that they and their coworkes could keep theier job and also that the lower mounthly wages was compensated by more free time and higher hourly wages.
    I dont disagree with you that there are traits in China and the USSR and of communism and capitalism, as in Sweden. But the marxist side is the side of fail, its what holds you back. You mention minimum wage and the marxists here wont let us abolish that because they would rather feel good than have willing adults work jobs they want. But that does is not the entire picture-its a triumph of the free market surrounded by marxist fail.

    When you say prices are "decided", unless you mean through the free market its a fail. Propaganda about union and govt interests are not that. Its not that I dislike sweden at all, its that you are going to be eaten by the wolves.

    Other things I like about sweden-the women and swedish mausers.

  6. #246
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Both. You cannot be free in an environment where you are not safe, the adage about liberty and safety is a false dichotomy. If you are not safe you are not free, and if you are not free you are not safe.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  7. #247
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Both. You cannot be free in an environment where you are not safe, the adage about liberty and safety is a false dichotomy. If you are not safe you are not free, and if you are not free you are not safe.
    Communist, do you believe that safety=lack of liberty?

  8. #248
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post

    Although the definition of freedom has different meanings to different people, I believe there is an ideological divide here between the American left and right.

    Personally, I see govts as restrictive by nature (govt passes laws, laws are inherently limiting) and that the overall net effect is less freedom. I live in a big govt state and its highly restrictive in nearly every way.

    The American left might argue that laws deliver freedom to those who "need" it, however I'd counter with the fact that freedom is a natural right-thats my view.

    So answer the poll, and I will leave an option for non-Americans. If you consider yourself a centrist/moderate/libertarian/enigma etc pick the side to which you most closely lean, or use your freedom to not vote or start your own poll.

    Edit-I did not click the "make poll" option so I will leave the choices below-if a mod would be kind enough to add these options, or allow me to that would be appreciated.
    The government restricts freedom. But that's not always a bad thing.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #249
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Communist, do you believe that safety=lack of liberty?
    No, safety=liberty, to an extent. If your existence is nothing but an anarchic scramble for survival, then you have as little choice as what to do with yourself than you would under a tyrannical government.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  10. #250
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    No, safety=liberty, to an extent. If your existence is nothing but an anarchic scramble for survival, then you have as little choice as what to do with yourself than you would under a tyrannical government.
    I think that safety and liberty are two different things, though often some liberty must to a reluctant extent be sacrificed for safety.

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