View Poll Results: Do Governments Restrict Freedom or Provide It?

Voters
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  • I lean right and govt restricts freedom.

    23 58.97%
  • I lean left and govt restricts freedom.

    11 28.21%
  • I lean right and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    3 7.69%
  • I lean left and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt restricts freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    2 5.13%
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Thread: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

  1. #211
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    KevinKohler's Avatar
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It doesn't accurately describe the situation. Government is an organization of the predatory process and totalitarian control by political means over a given territorial area.



    No, government is not about people coming together. When the government decided you were under their authority when you were born did you come together with those in government to make that decision? No, they decided it for you and ever since that day you have been under their command. Does the government have any real idea how many people consent to their governance or not? How many people were offered a choice to live in this land and not consent to be governed? That would be grand total of zero, yes? If someone comes to live in this land they MUST consent to the governing organization and follow their command thereafter or face fines, imprisonment, forced labor, or even death. Hell, in this country you're forced into labor as a condition for doing certain things like making a living or owning a home or if you want to open a business. In short, no one has a choice in the matter, so there is no "coming together of people". Your whole line of reasoning is based on a falsehood.



    You have no idea if that claim of yours is true or not.
    So....you disagree with a definition from merriam, and are therefor right?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  2. #212
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Rights are legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement;


    That is the very first line, of the very first link you provided. Nature does not recognize ethics. Nature does not adhere to legality, beyond the basic laws of physics. Nature DOES have social constructs, by which I mean, many species of animals form packs, instinctively.
    Ok, so I know you didn't read what I posted, but YES, they are ETHICAL. In this context, you are now attempting to ascribe ethical context to animals. My point on animals and natural law was NOT that animals think about these things, its that these laws manifest universally and are therefore natural.

  3. #213
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So....you disagree with a definition from merriam, and are therefor right?
    Dude, thats NOT what he said, look at what he wrote. You need to account for the possibility that you aren't grasping the issue here.

  4. #214
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    jet57's Avatar
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    This stuff is so basic, I will never understand how so many people can be totally clueless about it.
    Show me how basic it is.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #215
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I have never said or thought otherwise, but they ARE restrictions, are they not?
    They are not restrictions in the context that you are trying to present.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  6. #216
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Only government can put up a fence and legally shoot you if you cross it.

  7. #217
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    How does the govt GET that tax money to pay for those children?
    Through taxes but that restriction of having to pay taxes is much less then restriction then the restictions children have if they not get a good education. My country Sweden is one of the most left leaning western democracies with one of the worlds highest taxrates. Still people in sweden have the freedom to become rich and in some cases become billionaires. That for example the swedish entrepreneur that created Skype have earned billions of dollar. Maybee he would never have had that chance if sweden didn't have good free of charge school up and including free univerities? That my country Sweden and other welfare state have much greater social mobility than for example USA.

    Also high taxes can also create alot of benefits to the entire society. For example heavily subsided good daycare centers make both parents have the freedom to make a career and also provide a safe and good enviroment for the children. Also for example universal healthcare leads to a more productive and healthy society. Also a unemployed person or a person with a unskilled work have much larger freedom to better his position and contribute to society if he/she can be healtthy and get medicial treatment if needed.
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 10-23-14 at 01:14 PM.

  8. #218
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Ok, so I know you didn't read what I posted, but YES, they are ETHICAL. In this context, you are now attempting to ascribe ethical context to animals. My point on animals and natural law was NOT that animals think about these things, its that these laws manifest universally and are therefore natural.

    How do they manifest universally? Where is this natural manifestation of ethics occurring?

    Ethics, as a theme, is entirely, 100%, human. They are derived from morals. And morals are derived from various sources, religion being a major contributor.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  9. #219
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Dude, thats NOT what he said, look at what he wrote. You need to account for the possibility that you aren't grasping the issue here.
    I'm trying to. And what he wrote was "it doesn't accurately describe the situation". I copied and pasted my definition from a noted dictionary, THE primary source for word definitions. The rest of what he wrote was all about HIS personal definition of government.




    Perhaps you guys need to come to terms with the possibility that YOU'RE understanding of the word, and the rest of the worlds understand, differ?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  10. #220
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The right to shop where you want calls for other peoples freedom to be violated. Otherwise, people could refuse to commence in commerce with you for any reason what so ever and you're so called right goes out the window. You might not know this, but all positive right declarations call for a violation of someones liberty.
    There is no possibility to have absolute freedom, and if it comes between the protection of somewhat vulnerable sections of the population from discrimination of dominant groups then I choose the protection of vulnerable groups because the dominant sections of the population do not need that kind of protection.

    And no, the rights of the shopkeeper are not being violated because there is no right to discriminate in the US constitution.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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