View Poll Results: Do Governments Restrict Freedom or Provide It?

Voters
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  • I lean right and govt restricts freedom.

    23 58.97%
  • I lean left and govt restricts freedom.

    11 28.21%
  • I lean right and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    3 7.69%
  • I lean left and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt restricts freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    2 5.13%
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Thread: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

  1. #171
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post

    Although the definition of freedom has different meanings to different people, I believe there is an ideological divide here between the American left and right.

    Personally, I see govts as restrictive by nature (govt passes laws, laws are inherently limiting) and that the overall net effect is less freedom. I live in a big govt state and its highly restrictive in nearly every way.

    The American left might argue that laws deliver freedom to those who "need" it, however I'd counter with the fact that freedom is a natural right-thats my view.

    So answer the poll, and I will leave an option for non-Americans. If you consider yourself a centrist/moderate/libertarian/enigma etc pick the side to which you most closely lean, or use your freedom to not vote or start your own poll.

    Edit-I did not click the "make poll" option so I will leave the choices below-if a mod would be kind enough to add these options, or allow me to that would be appreciated.

    I lean right and govt restricts freedom.
    I lean left and govt restricts freedom.
    I lean right and govt does NOT restrict freedom.
    I lean left and govt does NOT restrict freedom.
    I am not American and govt restricts freedom.
    I am not American and govt does NOT restrict freedom.
    I am an American and do not really have a leaning in the sense of right vs left. Also I do not really think that it is a question of restricting freedom or not so that "other" would have been my favorite choice.

    "Other" would be that government does both restrict and enable freedom by producing public goods such as the general safety required to do business like making a law against theft or maintaining the boarders against Gingis Kahn.

  2. #172
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Without government or an equivalent organization you have no rights except for those you can win and secure with force or by fleeing an opponent.

  3. #173
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Restricting me from owning a person or killing a person is only a "restriction" if you believe there would have been a "freedom" to do those things without government's existence.
    No its not, in fact you dont even need to go there (trying to read peoples minds is a bit silly, right?). Look to the action, here. How does a govt protect a citizen from murder? By restriction of others. I happen to see that as a beneficial and good thing-but the ACTION is by restricting others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I think the concept of "natural rights" is a bit oxymoronic. "Rights" are a human construct. No bear has ever been concerned with the rights of a fish. Nature doesn't even give you a right to be alive. Whether or not you stay alive isn't usually even up to you. It wasn't until humans started manipulating their environment in an unprecedented manner that anyone started thinking about how things ought to be instead of how they are.
    Rights may be a human construct, but we see them in nature. Even if they are a human construct (or god given, natural, etc) they aren't granted or given by man-the reason natural rights are so popular is because if they aren't given by man-they can't be taken by man-or govt if you prefer.

    Isn't it a good thing to think about BOTH how things are and how they should be?

  4. #174
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I am an American and do not really have a leaning in the sense of right vs left. Also I do not really think that it is a question of restricting freedom or not so that "other" would have been my favorite choice.

    "Other" would be that government does both restrict and enable freedom by producing public goods such as the general safety required to do business like making a law against theft or maintaining the boarders against Gingis Kahn.
    My point was that the govt enables freedom by restricting others, and therefore a govt restricts.

  5. #175
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    My point was that the govt enables freedom by restricting others, and therefore a govt restricts.
    True. It restricts murderers in their labor.

  6. #176
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    And laws are restrictions, no? Im not saying govt has no role, or that its unbeneficial, or even undesirable-im saying that when we get to the heart of the matter-govts can only function by restriction. Im merely attempting to establish a baseline in this thread, thats all.
    By that reasoning, every society is restrictive. Being alive is restrictive. What difference does it make?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    A govt is a system. It is not made of individuals, it is RUN by individuals.
    Sure it is made of individuals. You vote for an individual, don't you? It's not some Borg collective.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    No its not, in fact you dont even need to go there (trying to read peoples minds is a bit silly, right?). Look to the action, here. How does a govt protect a citizen from murder? By restriction of others. I happen to see that as a beneficial and good thing-but the ACTION is by restricting others.



    Rights may be a human construct, but we see them in nature. Even if they are a human construct (or god given, natural, etc) they aren't granted or given by man-the reason natural rights are so popular is because if they aren't given by man-they can't be taken by man-or govt if you prefer.

    Isn't it a good thing to think about BOTH how things are and how they should be?
    What rights do you see in nature?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  9. #179
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    The overwhelming majority of us get that governments tend to restrict freedoms rather than provide them, and it makes the most sense given the nature of government's response to "why doesn't the government do something?"

    I believe it was Penn Jillette that said it best...

    “Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people."

  10. #180
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    By that reasoning, every society is restrictive. Being alive is restrictive. What difference does it make?
    My point was merely to illustrate what it is that govts do. And whats with the Hillary impression?

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