View Poll Results: Do Governments Restrict Freedom or Provide It?

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  • I lean right and govt restricts freedom.

    23 58.97%
  • I lean left and govt restricts freedom.

    11 28.21%
  • I lean right and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    3 7.69%
  • I lean left and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt restricts freedom.

    0 0%
  • I am not American and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    2 5.13%
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Thread: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

  1. #161
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Granted but Im referring to govt (a system) and not individuals.
    But a government is made up of individuals, given power by the electorate which is, of course, made up of individuals. What else do you think the government is?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    I have no deed. I have no land.

    Anyway, I'm ok with homesteading and personal property. Just not private property. There is a difference you know.
    Give me your property. Demonstrate your wiseness.

  3. #163
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    No offense, but the poll still tries to pigeon-hole people into predetermined groups that they may or may not be a party, hence the results will still be inaccurate. Nobody is going to remember that some of the respondents tried to "pick the closest lean". No, they're just going to read the results. But the question is good and worthy of discussion.

    Anyway, addressing the question: A little of both. For the most part, government is restrictive, be definition, I think. Most people wouldn't advocate "anything goes", so by admitting that government is restrictive isn't wholly a bad thing. But, it can be a defender of rights, too.

    I've never bought into the concept of "natural rights", at least as a practical real-world concept. Yes, there are things that people should enjoy as rights no matter what, but that's only in theory, not reality. Reality is that somebody and/or something has to defend those rights, or else they simply don't exist in the real world. That somebody may be one self and/or the government, but they still have to be defended... or taken, if you will, from people who want to deny them to you..
    I dont see "natural" rights as meaning they will go unopposed or that you or another will need to defend them-I see natural rights as simply the state of nature-not given by man or govt.

  4. #164
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    There is so much else that government does; I think that your thesis is flawed.
    But how does it "do" that, beyond restriction? Laws restrict. Taxes restrict.

  5. #165
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You're choosing the word "restrict" for negative connotations. And you're ignoring that the only way any person or organization can protect anyone's liberties is to curtail the ability of people to simply take what they want from others. These "restrictions" lead to our lives being less restricted, and this is a feature that is hardly unique to a government, not a democratic government, nor what passed for government in previous societies.

    If you have some alternative to a democratic government that would do a better job protecting people's rights, ensuring an orderly society, and promoting prosperity, please share it. Otherwise, all of this tedious whining about government as a concept (rather than reasoned criticism of specific ideas and aspects of our government) is just annoying.
    Im not ignoring anything here, I am merely establishing HOW a govt works. Now I agree in some cases this restriction is beneficial, but thats another topic.

  6. #166
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    I don't see why this is a binary question. Government sometimes does things like prevent you from building a car that is below certain safety standards. This is a restriction on the freedom of the market. Some would say it is warranted, others say differently. On the other hand, sometimes the government does things like forcibly prevents you from owning another human being. This is an expansion of freedom. Virtually everyone believes this to be warranted.

    On the aggregate, yes, governments restrict our actions. But most of the actions they restrict are actions that cause harm to other people, or ourselves.

    And, as Cephus just pointed out, government is made of people. To paraphrase Lewis Black, people sometimes act like government is a building that walks around and does things.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #167
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    I'm not an american and I think it is important to consider that goverment also gives freedom. For example it only through tax funded free of charge school every child can get a good education. Their that education gives a lot of freedom to the indivual at the same time it benefit the entire society.

    Think also how much restricted we as individual and consumers would be if it was not the goverments job through regulation and laws to see that the product we buy is safe. Because think of the hundreds of diffrent products we buy anything from sausages, cars, microvawe, guns and milk. How would we have the time to self find out if all the product we bought would not hurt us directly like for exampel stomach ill or exploding gun to long term effects like cancer? Escpecially since coperations will always spend alot of money on both open and covert marketing to make us believe their products is safe.
    How does the govt GET that tax money to pay for those children?

  8. #168
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Not really. If the government says murder is illegal, it cannot impose restrictions without doing so via legislation, that's the only way government operates. It passes laws.
    And laws are restrictions, no? Im not saying govt has no role, or that its unbeneficial, or even undesirable-im saying that when we get to the heart of the matter-govts can only function by restriction. Im merely attempting to establish a baseline in this thread, thats all.

  9. #169
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But a government is made up of individuals, given power by the electorate which is, of course, made up of individuals. What else do you think the government is?
    A govt is a system. It is not made of individuals, it is RUN by individuals.

  10. #170
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    Re: Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I dont see "natural" rights as meaning they will go unopposed or that you or another will need to defend them-I see natural rights as simply the state of nature-not given by man or govt.
    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Im not ignoring anything here, I am merely establishing HOW a govt works. Now I agree in some cases this restriction is beneficial, but thats another topic.
    Restricting me from owning a person or killing a person is only a "restriction" if you believe there would have been a "freedom" to do those things without government's existence.

    I think the concept of "natural rights" is a bit oxymoronic. "Rights" are a human construct. No bear has ever been concerned with the rights of a fish. Nature doesn't even give you a right to be alive. Whether or not you stay alive isn't usually even up to you. It wasn't until humans started manipulating their environment in an unprecedented manner that anyone started thinking about how things ought to be instead of how they are.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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