View Poll Results: What do you think about this?

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11. You may not vote on this poll
  • I support anything that gets these sick guys behind bars.

    3 27.27%
  • This is going too far. I don't like it.

    3 27.27%
  • I don't know what to think about all this just yet.

    3 27.27%
  • other - please explain

    2 18.18%
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Thread: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

  1. #11
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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I don't think that soliciting sex (or sending explicit photos or whatever else these guys did) from a fake child should itself be a crime. But it should certainly be enough to get a search warrant to check out the guy's computer, and I'm guessing you'd find plenty of evidence of real crimes on there.
    I agree with this.

    No human was actually hurt in any way (emotionally or physically)...so I do not think a crime was committed.

    However, I think I would be okay with using this as a possible justification for checking out the perp's home/computers to check for real adult 'entertainment' illegalities.

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    But if it leads to the below scenario??? Then what?
    I think that that power should not be granted the state. I would want good evidence of a real crime.

    Though, of course, total transparency is an interesting concept for another discussion.

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    YES, it may well be , not today of course. as new laws must be written , wisely , I hope .
    Messing with someone's brain, with "evil" intent can be a crime .

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    Entrapment would be if the police established and encouraged contact with the offender, especially if they initiated the illegal acts. I suspect that's not the case here, but obviously neither of us know the full details.
    The "offender" could not have flirted with the avatar had the avatar not been created and, as we know, for the purpose of entrapment.

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Messing with someone's brain, with "evil" intent can be a crime .
    On who's part? Who was messing with who here?

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    Entrapment would be if the police established and encouraged contact with the offender, especially if they initiated the illegal acts. I suspect that's not the case here, but obviously neither of us know the full details.
    Would you, or would you not say these kinds of scenarios are "traps" set up by law enforcement?

    If a "trap" is not "entrapment" what is?

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    This is without a doubt entrapment, but that may not be a law in Australia. While the guy is disgusting but that doesn't give the police the right to commit a crime to catch him.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The "offender" could not have flirted with the avatar had the avatar not been created and, as we know, for the purpose of entrapment.
    No, that's circular reasoning. It's only created for the purposes of entrapment if it was used for entrapment, which (I would argue) it is not. See my response below for more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Would you, or would you not say these kinds of scenarios are "traps" set up by law enforcement?

    If a "trap" is not "entrapment" what is?
    No, it was not set up as a trap, although it would not have mattered if it did. It was set up as an investigative tool. Yes, it was an investigative tool which would lead to more arrests - but that's no different to any investigative tool.

    Some scenarios:

    1) A police officer goes undercover, befriends a drug smuggler, busts open a drug ring. Is that 'entrapment'? The officer's role was to 'trap' the ring members, and arrests were only made because of his actions. No different from Sweetie.

    2) A police officer hears the claim that a 10-year-old is being abused via her webcam and internet connection, but there is no hard evidence. They monitor the childs internet activity (with her/parental consent) and catch her abuser in the act. The only difference between this and Sweetie is that Sweetie does not put an actual child in danger, so it is (if anything) more ethical.

    It is only entrapment if the officer's actions made the crime more likely to happen, which means that Sweetie is only entrapment if the predator had no way of chatting with real ten-year-olds online and so Sweetie's presence enabled the interaction between the offender and a ten-year-old. Since that's not the case, it isn't entrapment.

    EDIT: Also, being a 'trap' does not make it 'entrapment'. Consider the police who intercept a drugs package, then replace the drugs with fakes and allow it to continue it's course so as to catch the recipient. Definitely a trap, definitely not entrapment.
    Last edited by iangb; 10-21-14 at 09:05 AM.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    .... The only difference between this and Sweetie is that Sweetie does not put an actual child in danger, so it is (if anything) more ethical.
    .....
    No. That is not the only difference. But if that is what you think, I understand your position.

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    Re: When Everything Is Fake - Is It A Crime???

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    No, that's circular reasoning. It's only created for the purposes of entrapment if it was used for entrapment, which (I would argue) it is not. See my response below for more.

    No, it was not set up as a trap, although it would not have mattered if it did. It was set up as an investigative tool. Yes, it was an investigative tool which would lead to more arrests - but that's no different to any investigative tool.

    Some scenarios:

    1) A police officer goes undercover, befriends a drug smuggler, busts open a drug ring. Is that 'entrapment'? The officer's role was to 'trap' the ring members, and arrests were only made because of his actions. No different from Sweetie.

    2) A police officer hears the claim that a 10-year-old is being abused via her webcam and internet connection, but there is no hard evidence. They monitor the childs internet activity (with her/parental consent) and catch her abuser in the act. The only difference between this and Sweetie is that Sweetie does not put an actual child in danger, so it is (if anything) more ethical.

    It is only entrapment if the officer's actions made the crime more likely to happen, which means that Sweetie is only entrapment if the predator had no way of chatting with real ten-year-olds online and so Sweetie's presence enabled the interaction between the offender and a ten-year-old. Since that's not the case, it isn't entrapment.

    EDIT: Also, being a 'trap' does not make it 'entrapment'. Consider the police who intercept a drugs package, then replace the drugs with fakes and allow it to continue it's course so as to catch the recipient. Definitely a trap, definitely not entrapment.
    A more proper analogy would be a cop going undercover as a drug dealer then offering people drugs to random people on the street then arresting them for taking it. In the bag would be oregano and not any kind of drug. It's fishing and it's entrapment.

    Unless you can show this guy was a repeat offender that they had soft evidence against, enough to warrant further investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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