View Poll Results: Is SS Marriage a Reason for the decline.

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  • Yes

    3 3.85%
  • No

    68 87.18%
  • Other

    7 8.97%
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Thread: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marriage?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'd agree. However, if that's the case then why is there so much resistance to the suggestion that the state ONLY recognize "civil unions" and leave the term "marriage" off the book altogether?

    Shouldn't that be a question asked of those that worked to ban Civil Unions?

    Like in my State:

    "Section 15-A. Marriage.

    That only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions. This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage.



    Instead of working for a compromise, the effort was to ban both while they felt they had the - ahhh - "power". Never thinking that so soon public opinion would shift so quickly for same-sex Civil Marriage. Now of course, suddenly "Civil Unions" are supposed to be an acceptable compromise.



    >>>>

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Separate but equal is unconstitutional.
    "Separate but equal" refers to the unhappy doctrine the Supreme Court established in Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896. It upheld the right of states to discriminate by race in public accommodations, provided the accommodations were equal.

    That doctrine has nothing whatever to do with homosexuals. Any state law that singles blacks out for disparate treatment creates a "suspect classification" for 14th Amendment equal protection purposes. That means it will be reviewed under the Supreme Court's "strict scrutiny" standard, which is extremely hard to meet. That is not the case with homosexuals. Laws that single them out for disparate treatment do not create a suspect classification. The Court has never held that such laws call for anything other than ordinary rational basis review.

    As long as you and other posters here keep trying to claim that laws which discriminate against blacks stand on the same constitutional footing with laws that discriminate against homosexuals, I will keep pointing out how false and misleading that claim is. The effort by homosexuals to compare what few disadvantages they still have in some places to the serious, pervasive oppression American blacks had to endure even for a century after the end of the Civil War is dishonest, disgusting, and an insult to those blacks. It's like claiming that your ingrown toenail is just as bad as someone else's broken neck, because after all, they are both injuries.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'd agree. However, if that's the case then why is there so much resistance to the suggestion that the state ONLY recognize "civil unions" and leave the term "marriage" off the book altogether?
    I am not sure it is as much resistance as familiarity with the terms .

    I actually am ok with all legally recognized weddings being called "civil union". So even the most religious person would have a civil union. Whether that individually wanted to call it marriage - would be a case of individual preference or if the prefer, declaration by their church.

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I am not sure it is as much resistance as familiarity with the terms .

    I actually am ok with all legally recognized weddings being called "civil union". So even the most religious person would have a civil union. Whether that individually wanted to call it marriage - would be a case of individual preference or if the prefer, declaration by their church.
    That's EXACTLY where I'm coming from.

    There's a lot of resistance on the religious side (justifiable, IMHO) to "marriage" for homosexuals but not much resistance at all for gays living together and having the same basic rights of property transfer, power of attorney, etc. All this would do is change a simple term that's holding a lot of stuff up but if you look at the threads where I've mentioned it I've seen TONS of resistance and ALL of it has been from liberals/progressives. Not one Conservative on this site has said "boo" about it.

  5. #75
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Heterosexual marriage is currently in decline, do you believe homosexual marriage is one of the reasons for that decline?

    Yes
    No
    Other
    Heterosexual marriages have been in a decline for far longer than the SSM debate has been going on. So answer is...no.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    No. SSM is a symptom of the same root social issues that have also caused our increasing inability to form and sustain successful marriages.

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    I'm playing a little devil's advocate.

    I personally think marriage should be changed to a civil union... and any individuals can participate in the union.
    Why not continuing the word that everyone in society already uses to refer to this type of arrangement? What purpose is their to rewriting a thousand laws with one different term?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. SSM is a symptom of the same root social issues that have also caused our increasing inability to form and sustain successful marriages.
    And legalizing same-sex marriage will stem the tide, if you will, by letting more people form and sustain successful marriages. I'm glad we agree this is a necessary step!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Why by the cow if you can get the milk for free.

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    "Separate but equal" refers to the unhappy doctrine the Supreme Court established in Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896. It upheld the right of states to discriminate by race in public accommodations, provided the accommodations were equal.

    That doctrine has nothing whatever to do with homosexuals. Any state law that singles blacks out for disparate treatment creates a "suspect classification" for 14th Amendment equal protection purposes. That means it will be reviewed under the Supreme Court's "strict scrutiny" standard, which is extremely hard to meet. That is not the case with homosexuals. Laws that single them out for disparate treatment do not create a suspect classification. The Court has never held that such laws call for anything other than ordinary rational basis review.

    As long as you and other posters here keep trying to claim that laws which discriminate against blacks stand on the same constitutional footing with laws that discriminate against homosexuals, I will keep pointing out how false and misleading that claim is. The effort by homosexuals to compare what few disadvantages they still have in some places to the serious, pervasive oppression American blacks had to endure even for a century after the end of the Civil War is dishonest, disgusting, and an insult to those blacks. It's like claiming that your ingrown toenail is just as bad as someone else's broken neck, because after all, they are both injuries.
    That is an extremely limited understanding of constitutional law you have here, but you get points for trying.

    Riddle me this, however. You mentioned that the courts haven't yet recognized any protection for same sex marriage beyond a rational basis test. This is true. Now make an argument for what level of scrutiny it SHOULD have and why. You'll have trouble distinguishing it from Loving, and you'll end up with at least intermediate scrutiny, if not strict. Then, you can make an argument for why Brown should only apply to classifications covered by strict scrutiny. Gender isn't, and Title IX is essentially a prohibition on separate but equal for women in education. You've got some of the essential tools, but a good legal argument is never just about the surface level stuff and it's never just about the ideas that support your position.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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