View Poll Results: Is SS Marriage a Reason for the decline.

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    3 3.85%
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    68 87.18%
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Thread: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marriage?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Heterosexual marriage is currently in decline, do you believe homosexual marriage is one of the reasons for that decline?

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    What SSM does do, is pose the question of "Why?". And there is no really persuasive reason to answer "Yes!", when you start thinking about it. It creates all sorts of incalculable dependencies that can be ruinous, if you are unlucky. If you are lucky it is great, but most marriages are not as lengthy as tradition would demand.

  2. #102
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If more than zero gay people get married, that results in more married couples.
    The original claim was that it would "Stem The Tide" of the loss of marriages by gay couples getting married. If anything, the evidence seems to suggest that it will increase our portion of non-married and divorced marriagable couples.

    Would you like to take a look to see (from a raw perspective) if adopting homosexual marriage is indeed correlated with a reduction in the portion of the overall populace who is married, as we have seen in this country?

  3. #103
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What SSM does do, is pose the question of "Why?". And there is no really persuasive reason to answer "Yes!", when you start thinking about it. It creates all sorts of incalculable dependencies that can be ruinous, if you are unlucky. If you are lucky it is great, but most marriages are not as lengthy as tradition would demand.
    This is simply not true in so many ways.

    The only answer to "why?" needed here is that the only union that grants the distinct relationship of "spouses" is marriage. This means that same sex couples are being prevented from entering into this legal relationship based on their relative sexes/genders. That is the only reason why.

    And there are no more "dependencies" that you can prove from same sex couples marrying than come from opposite sex couples getting married.

    Tradition at one time only demanded marriages to last a few years. Since then, the length of marriages has been dependent on time, place, culture, and individual peoples. Even here in the US, people would simply leave their spouses behind if they didn't feel like being married any longer but couldn't get a divorce. Plus, tradition is not mandatory, nor should it be.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #104
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This is simply not true in so many ways.

    The only answer to "why?" needed here is that the only union that grants the distinct relationship of "spouses" is marriage. This means that same sex couples are being prevented from entering into this legal relationship based on their relative sexes/genders. That is the only reason why.

    And there are no more "dependencies" that you can prove from same sex couples marrying than come from opposite sex couples getting married.

    Tradition at one time only demanded marriages to last a few years. Since then, the length of marriages has been dependent on time, place, culture, and individual peoples. Even here in the US, people would simply leave their spouses behind if they didn't feel like being married any longer but couldn't get a divorce. Plus, tradition is not mandatory, nor should it be.
    What we need is a law requiring men to become pregnant in order to comply with women's right to be equal.

  5. #105
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What we need is a law requiring men to become pregnant in order to comply with women's right to be equal.
    Nonsense. That is not what legal equality is about. It is about the laws treating people equally, not nature. Nothing in marriage legally requires pregnancy for either men or women.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The original claim was that it would "Stem The Tide" of the loss of marriages by gay couples getting married. If anything, the evidence seems to suggest that it will increase our portion of non-married and divorced marriagable couples.

    Would you like to take a look to see (from a raw perspective) if adopting homosexual marriage is indeed correlated with a reduction in the portion of the overall populace who is married, as we have seen in this country?
    No, because gay couples aren't married before same-sex marriage becomes legal. So the percentage of married gay couples starts at zero percent and goes to more than zero percent.

    This also increases the percentage of the total population that is married. It was (STRAIGHT_MARRIAGE_COUPLES) + 0. Now it will be (STRAIGHT_MARRIAGE_COUPLES) + (GAY_MARRIAGE_COUPLES)

    Although I would point out that the entire discussion is a little silly. Whether or not same-sex marriage has any impact on marriage or divorce rates isn't relevant. Freedom to make those decisions is.
    Last edited by Deuce; 10-15-14 at 12:09 PM.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #107
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Nonsense. That is not what legal equality is about. It is about the laws treating people equally, not nature. Nothing in marriage legally requires pregnancy for either men or women.
    Treating two naturally unequal people as were they equals is frequently stupid and often grossly unfair. Think of a handicap.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Treating two naturally unequal people as were they equals is frequently stupid and often grossly unfair. Think of a handicap.
    There is nothing unequal about the genders when it comes to marriage and being spouses. Spouses under our laws are treated the same no matter their sexes/genders, or should be. Any differences in treatment would be minor at best (if they exist) and would not have any impact on a person's ability to be able to be a spouse legally to another person of the same sex.

    Your argument fails because it is trying to make generalizations and is unable to show how spouses under the law are treated differently in a significant way that precludes two people of the same sex from being legally considered spouses.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 10-15-14 at 01:00 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #109
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, because gay couples aren't married before same-sex marriage becomes legal. So the percentage of married gay couples starts at zero percent and goes to more than zero percent.

    This also increases the percentage of the total population that is married. It was (STRAIGHT_MARRIAGE_COUPLES) + 0. Now it will be (STRAIGHT_MARRIAGE_COUPLES) + (GAY_MARRIAGE_COUPLES)

    Although I would point out that the entire discussion is a little silly. Whether or not same-sex marriage has any impact on marriage or divorce rates isn't relevant. Freedom to make those decisions is.
    Observe this claim that you originally responded to:

    SSM is a symptom of the same root social issues that have also caused our increasing inability to form and sustain successful marriages
    If, in fact, I am correct and SSM is indeed a symptom of the same root issues that have also caused our increasing inability to form and sustain successful marriages, then we will see adoption of SSM correlate with reductions in heterosexual marriage and reductions in marriage overall. The adoption of SSM does not, then, signify a "stemming of the tide" (as you have suggested), but rather an continued acceleration along a glide path of marriage failure across society.

    If your argument basically boils down to "If you discount all the bad results, then the results are great!", then all you have done is predetermined your result by perverse input selection.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is nothing unequal about the genders when it comes to marriage and being spouses. Spouses under our laws are treated the same no matter their sexes/genders, or should be. Any differences in treatment would be minor at best (if they exist) and would not have any impact on a person's ability to be able to be a spouse legally to another person of the same sex.

    Your argument fails because it is trying to make generalizations and is unable to show how spouses under the law are treated differently in a significant way that precludes two people of the same sex from being legally considered spouses.
    I cannot become pregnant like a woman can. That is unequal and no law can make us equal. Of course, one can blow hot air and claim equality. But only the stupid believe it.

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