View Poll Results: Is SS Marriage a Reason for the decline.

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  • Yes

    3 3.85%
  • No

    68 87.18%
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    7 8.97%
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Thread: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marriage?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, you don't get it. Numerous laws would have to be updated to refer to civil unions and also there's no reason to do that.
    Well, we're pissing away tons of legislative and judicial capital on changing the term "marriage" to mean "everybody and the kitchen sink" right now so what's the difference?

  2. #92
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    That is an extremely limited understanding of constitutional law you have here, but you get points for trying.
    You didn't try at all to explain just where you think what I said about the point of constitutional law I was discussing is inaccurate. In fact you can't, and your condescending remark is a lame, transparent attempt to hide that.

    Riddle me this, however. You mentioned that the courts haven't yet recognized any protection for same sex marriage beyond a rational basis test. This is true. Now make an argument for what level of scrutiny it SHOULD have and why.
    Rational basis review. That is the usual level, and as you say, the Supreme Court, at least, has never suggested anything else would apply to a state law that excluded same-sex partners. If you think some form of heightened review applies, then you make the argument for it. I wouldn't even want to try, because that argument's a loser. Justice Kennedy, who's authored all three of the Court's "pro-gay" decisions, avoided any suggestion of heightened scrutiny in either Romer v. Evans or Lawrence v. Texas, and although his opinion in Windsor is garbled, he didn't seem to suggest it applied there either.

    You'll have trouble distinguishing it from Loving
    Not in the least. In fact I just distinguished state same-sex marriage laws from the state antimiscegenation laws at issue in Loving, in detail, on a thread here a week or so ago. I'm not going to do it again just for you, but I don't think Loving is at all relevant to same-sex marriage. If you want to argue that Loving is relevant authority, make your case.

    Then, you can make an argument for why Brown should only apply to classifications covered by strict scrutiny.
    Brown? I have no idea what case you're talking about, or what it has to do with strict scrutiny.

    a good legal argument is never just about the surface level stuff
    I don't know what you mean by "surface level stuff"--legal arguments are about the law. The good ones are well supported and well reasoned.

    and it's never just about the ideas that support your position.
    I don't know why anyone want to include anything in his arguments that didn't tend to support the position he was arguing for. I'm not about to argue against myself.

  3. #93
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's just silly. A marriage license in AZ costs $76 and everyone that wants to get married has to have one. That would be no different if the legal term was changed to "civil union".
    It isn't about the cost to the people when getting the paperwork, but rather the cost to the taxpayers given the amount of legal paperwork that includes the word/term "marriage" or "married". This means that all those legal documents would need to be changed, which would cost taxpayer money to do. That is the problem. That cost of taxpayer money just to appease people like you and others who don't want to share the term marriage because you wrongfully feel it should only be a religious term.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    I don't know for sure, but no.

  5. #95
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Post such data.


    ....Research conducted in 2004 by Gunnar Anderson, a professor of demography at Sweden’s Stockholm University, seems to confirm the trend. Anderson looked at legal partnerships in both Norway and Sweden and found that in Norway, which legalized civil unions in 1993, only 1,300 homosexual couples registered in the first eight years, compared with 190,000 heterosexual marriages; in Sweden, between initial passage in 1995 and a review in 2002, 1,526 legal partnerships were registered, compared with 280,000 heterosexual marriages. In the Netherlands, gay marriage is actually declining in popularity: 2,500 gay couples married in 2001 — the year it was legalized — and that number dropped to 1,800 in 2002, 1,200 in 2004, and 1,100 in 2005. In 2009, the last year for which figures are available, less than 2 percent of marriages in the Netherlands were between same-sex couples....

    Denmark was the first country to introduce recognition of same-sex partnerships, coining the term “registered partnership” in 1989. Norway followed suit in 1993, and then Sweden in 1995. Again, Stockholm University’s study seems to confirm the American trend. In Norway, male same-sex marriages are 50 percent more likely to end in divorce than heterosexual marriages, and female same-sex marriages are an astonishing 167 percent more likely to be dissolved. In Sweden, the divorce risk for male-male partnerships is 50 percent higher than for heterosexual marriages, and the divorce risk for female partnerships is nearly double that for men....
    ..... Less likely to marry, more likely to divorce.

  6. #96
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Heterosexual marriage is currently in decline, do you believe homosexual marriage is one of the reasons for that decline?

    Yes
    No
    Other
    only if hetero sexual marrage depends on gay people getting married to some one of the other sex

  7. #97
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Well, we're pissing away tons of legislative and judicial capital on changing the term "marriage" to mean "everybody and the kitchen sink" right now so what's the difference?
    We're spending that money because of right-wing "conservatives." Ask them why they are spending millions of taxpayer dollars on hiring outside counsel (coincidentally friends of the state governors/AGs, I bet) to fight a case they know they can't win. Ask them why they are spending millions of taxpayer dollars fighting individual freedom to make a choice that has no impact on others?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  8. #98
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post




    ..... Less likely to marry, more likely to divorce.
    If more than zero gay people get married, that results in more married couples.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #99
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I like how infrequently you have anything to say about the topics we're actually discussing, and instead get by on whining about arguments from other threads where you and others were lying about other people's religions.
    Ok, that's ironic and psychotic. Good luck establishing a normal perspective about religion. A view without you as KING because you were a Jew (big ****ing deal) and one without you as KING because you're not Christian (like that makes ****ing sense, given your opposite claim regarding Judaism).

  10. #100
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    Re: Is the legalization of SS marriage a cause for the decline of heterosexual marria

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Well, we're pissing away tons of legislative and judicial capital on changing the term "marriage" to mean "everybody and the kitchen sink" right now so what's the difference?
    Actually, the waste of money here is coming from those who are trying to prevent same sex couples from getting married. There was no legally imbedded restriction on marriage based on sex/gender until those opposed to same sex marriage (and who recognized that support for gays and same sex marriage was growing, even back then) spent time and money to implement that restriction. Then those oppose fought against and are still fighting against, which wastes time and money, allowing same sex couples to marry even when everyone and their brother can see that it is inevitable. Same sex couples will be allowed to marry in every state in a short amount of time, likely a couple of years or less. It is those against same sex couples getting married who are wasting money here already. There is absolutely no reason to waste more, especially not when it is pointless to do so.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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