View Poll Results: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

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  • He should be judged strictly by today's standards and mores.

    6 9.84%
  • Somewhere in the middle. (Please elaborate)

    9 14.75%
  • He should be judged by the standards and more of the time in which he lived.

    37 60.66%
  • Other

    9 14.75%
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Thread: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

  1. #51
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Actually, I think that was one of the major reasons why Columbus struggled to find funding in the first place. Most educated people realized that his math was wildly off, and that he would probably starve to death in the middle of the ocean before he got anywhere near Asia.

    He simply happened to get lucky by bumping into America instead. lol
    I almost hate to do this, but here are some oldies...

    "Christopher Columbus didn't know where he was going, didn't know where he had been, and did it all on someone else's money, and the white man has been following Columbus ever since."


    One Indian to another when Columbus landed..."Well, there goes the neighborhood."

    Sorry, I couldn't resist!

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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Slavery back in the 1400's was a very legal commodity. Iceland 1117, Norway 1274, Sweden which included Finland at the time 1335 and the Republic of Ragusa were the only countries where slavery was illegal or abolished prior to Columbus setting sail. That does not make slavery a good thing, it just clarifies where the world at the time of Columbus was at regarding slavery.

    At the same time in Central and South America human sacrifices were considered the norm. Norms, what is moral and is not change over time. The OP asked is it fair or should Columbus be judged by the norms and standards of his day or by today's standards? Why should anyone expect Columbus to do something different than everyone, almost every other country, nation, tribe, state, whatever was doing? All this means is Columbus was not enlighten by today's standards, but he didn't live today.
    Columbus was condemned as essentially a morally repugnant and a murdering and abusive tyrant even in his day... the guy was scum.
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Columbus was condemned as essentially a morally repugnant and a murdering and abusive tyrant even in his day... the guy was scum.
    Agreed.

    This nonsense of 'it was the times they lived in' is ridiculous.

    What a cop out.

    I imagine group rapists on trial use that excuse...'Hey, everyone else was doing it'.

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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Agreed.

    This nonsense of 'it was the times they lived in' is ridiculous.

    What a cop out.

    I imagine group rapists on trial use that excuse...'Hey, everyone else was doing it'.
    Seriously... invading armies used to rape and murder women in ancient days but since it was the norm that makes them OK people...
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Well, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella were expecting something different. They did not want indigenous populations enslaved. Doesn't fit with your narrative, eh?
    The question is should Columbus be judged by today's standards or by the standards of his time. To me the answer is simple, he should be judged by the standards of his time. It is that simple. No big deal.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Columbus was condemned as essentially a morally repugnant and a murdering and abusive tyrant even in his day... the guy was scum.
    So? The question was should Columbus be judged by the standards of his time or by the standards of today? Whether or not he was scum is irrelevant to the question poised in the OP.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    So? The question was should Columbus be judged by the standards of his time or by the standards of today? Whether or not he was scum is irrelevant to the question poised in the OP.
    He is judged poorly in both times...
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    So? The question was should Columbus be judged by the standards of his time or by the standards of today? Whether or not he was scum is irrelevant to the question poised in the OP.
    1) I think their answer did answer the OP question.

    and 2) even if it didn't - what's it to you? Why would you care if a poster answers an OP question or not? Especially so when it is not even your OP.

  9. #59
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Being that day is Columbus Day, I read something this morning that included something to the effect of, "If judged by today's standards...", then went off to detail all his atrocities, and so on.

    Is that fair? Should he be judged by today's standards and mores, or should he be judged according to the era in which he lived?

    Note: This question is NOT about whether or not he should have a holiday named after him.


    By the standards and norms of the times in which he lived, of course. I'd think this was obvious.


    Of course, even by the rather harsh standards of his day, he was allegedly brutal enough that the King of Spain was obligated to end his governorship.... which does not speak well of him, if most of those accusations were in fact true.

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  10. #60
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Exactly. At least where serious history is concerned. The world loves their heroes and we have had generations of kids grow up idolizing an honest George Washington or an honest Abe Lincoln or thrilling at the heroic myths that grew up around such figures as Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. There seemed to be no profit in also exposing the quite human but less than noble qualities in those historic figures. And for generations of school kids, Columbus has been much the same kind of mythical hero; i.e. the brave adventurer sailing into the unknown and discovering America so that others could follow. It was all true and why spoil it with the more human and less noble aspects of it? There would be plenty of time for historians to sort out the details later.
    If the question were to take into consideration public school education, I have two modest suggestions: 1) Allow simplifications to foster for youngsters and increase complexity with age 2) Encourage multiple perspectives, including the population with whom Columbus and his men did not treat so well. One could incorporate either (or both) without conceptually ripping it all to shreds. I think most people agree with that. Conservative traditionalists and multiculturalist liberals mostly bicker about the fine details of such matters. Actually, if you looked closely at a meeting with...who was it..Chester Finn and I want to say Diane Ravitch (could be wrong) in the mid-1990s, you could quickly see that both agreed in principle, but nevertheless found each other in a verbal brawl over who was destroying American education with politically correct sentiment or wanting to ensure that contemporary racial and ethnic minorities didn't have a voice. Anyway, the younger the student, the more apt I am to accept the need for mythology in American public schools. I'm a nationalist and I am also of the mind that sometimes acting like the no-longer-enchanted child spoiling Santa Claus for his classmates isn't inherently beneficial. That being said, with age comes the necessity to challenge young minds, and as such, we can slowly delve into more uncomfortable questions.

    For the public at large, these pedagogical limitations have less relevance. The adult ought to be able to handle the notion that, say, Thomas Jefferson's incredibly likely sexual relationship with Sally Hemmings would at least in part, be reflective of the inherent: 1) relationship between owner and slave 2) societal perception of white male on black woman sexuality 3) likely cause a series of conflicting feelings when romance may become involved.

    And those historians did ultimately expose Columbus as quite human with some less than noble qualities. But his mother no doubt loved him as did many who would write about his adventures and exploits. It is a good thing to appreciate and understand the dark side of history but not to the exclusion of the good that came out of it. To demonize the whole man and what he accomplished because there is also a dark side is to be as short sighted and using selective history as do those who see only the hero.
    Portrayals of past men and women as Satan-incarnates are often far off the mark, but that doesn't likewise prevent us from seeing men or women as participating in great evils (or being the master of great evils).

    With Christopher Columbus the temptation is to save, rather than condemn, because he has become a patriotic and nationalistic figure for our American mythology. With another country's figure, we often have far less restraint in concluding them as figures to essentially hold in contempt.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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